• Hey All! Lately there has been more and more scammers on the forum board. They register and replies to members requests for guns and/or parts or other things. The reply contains a gmail or hotmail address or similar ”anonymous” email addresses which they want you to reply to. DO NOT ANSWER ANY STRANGE MESSAGES! They often state something like this: ”Hello! Saw your post about purchasing a stock for a Safari. KnuckleheadBob has one. Email him at: [email protected]” If you receive any strange messages: Check the status of whoever message you. If they have no posts and signed up the same day or very recently, stay away. Same goes for other members they might refer to. Check them too and if they are long standing members, PM them and ask if the message is legit. Most likely it’s not. Then use the report function in each message or post so I can kick them out! Beware of anything that might seem fishy! And again, for all of you who registered your personal name as username, please contact me so I can change it to a more anonymous username. You’d be surprised of how much one can find out about a person from just a username on a forum such ad our! All the best! And be safe! Jim

L61r bolt shroud.

Sako Collectors Club Discussion Forum

After looking a little closer maybe the shroud is the same(would take measurements to confirm) and the cocking piece different but wouldn't it also require a shorter firing pin ?
 
It is difficult to say from the photos how much different in length, if any, the shrouds may be; particularly considering we are looking at an L461 compared to an L61R. It is clear, however, that the cocking pieces (firing pin assemblies) are different from "normal" Sakos as they exhibit a cocking indicator tab projecting rearward from the bottom of the striker head which is not found on other Sakos until the A-series.

Anyone have thoughts as to whether these may have been manufactured by Howa under contract?
 
golden_bear_006.jpg

I found this shot online..It shows a DH Golden Bear(top) beside a Coltsman (sako) L61R action....HMMMM!:thinking:~Bloo
 
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Bloo: I have a couple of examples of the D-H Golden Bear in .30-06. Their bolts (and shrouds) are identical to a three-lug pre-1972 L61R -- so close, in fact, that the bolts will interchange and appear to fit like a glove. Though the Golden Bears' bolts don't have the "sunken" firing pin of the Australian Sakos in this thread, I still wonder if there may be some connection between Howa and the "Australian" bolts.

BTW: Howa made a "medium action" Sako knock off chambered in .308, but it had the same diameter bolt as the larger action (unlike the smaller bolt of the L579) and used a very slightly longer magazine than the L579. If Howa ever made Sako knock-off action for the .222 family I've never come across it.
 
Interesting Stonecreek, when i was comparing my L61 to my 80's CMC (Howa) some time back i noticed the bolt shroud/firing pin the same/similiar, pear shaped bolt knob and strangely the serial number electro penciled under the bolt handle appeared to be by the same person!!! I might strip my Sako/Howa bolts and compare......
Also for the Aussies, my early to mid 70's 579 has 'Imported by Stoeger' stamped on the action below the stock line. Always though D.W.Custer was the importer?
 
Aust Importer

Toddley - Yes DW Custer was the Aust importer back then. I would suggest that your L579 is a import from the US. I have a L61R .338 WM that I purchased off usedguns web site that has the Stoeger markings as well. The seller was Masterkeemen who imports a lot of used Sakos into Aust from the US. They have a guy based in the US who does their buying. He has chimed in on this site not too long ago in relation to the feasibility of importing into Aus as they do.

My L61R is a transition rifle that is marked L61R but has the AIII bolt shroud. I have never seen a early L61R in Aust that has the Aust version of the early shroud like yours.

I also have an early L579 that has a shroud the same as the ones in the US that are pre Garcia guns. This one is bofors stamped and was purchased from Melbourne Firearms. It has no importer markings and I assumed it was an Aussie gun. After seening this thread I am not so sure.....
 
Hi

My 2 cents added below:

I think the shrouds from early pre-garcia sakos -1964 to about 1968 will be the same in Australia as in the US. These will be as shown in the 1st picture in this thread.

Bloo - are you sure your not confusing 'late' pre-garcia era rifles with 'early' pre garcia rifles? These photos I've posted are of mid 1960's rifles (serial no. 11XXX and 13 XXX) Second and third year of production for the L61. Both have a third lug - see photo below. Also shown is a later L579 bolt from Australia at the bottom. The early l61, l579 and l461 shrouds on pre-garcia were as shown below in Australia until about late 1960's and then converted over to the to the longer cocking piece - but same shroud. Misako seems to confirm you also have the early cocking piece (short) in the US. The photos you have posted Bloo, to me are what I would term late pre garcia guns - say late 1969 to 1974? what is the serial number range?

These early ones (short cocking piece) where definitely all sako factory. I'll add that these early sako's particularly in L61 configurations are very light on the ground here in oz. At that stage most people where using a Lithgow smellie .270/303, .25/303 and .22/303 - converted miltary actions and most Australians were financially less well off compared to amercians then. A new sako in the 1960's would have been a major purchase for a rich Australian wheat/sheep farmer let alone an average shooter who would only dream of having one.


threelug.jpg

* note "pre garcia" is just a terminology I use to date the guns in comparison to yours in the US. As Sraaw points out DW custer was our importer for most of that time.
 
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Hi All,
I took some photos of 2 of my .222 bolts, the early L461 bolt with the recessed firing pin assy, which my earlier post & photos show, and a later model L461 (S/No 143 644) bolt. The outer shroud section looks to be exactly the same length, but the big difference is the rear of the firing pin assy.

The later bolt has a small stub shaft on the side, behind the handle - what is that for?

Topgear - the L46 sporter is only used for 'fun' & on rare occassions a bit of fox whistling. It's about to loose the peep sight and I'll just use it with open sights. The rear elevation ramp obscures the bottom half of the sight picture when looking through the peep sight - which I find a little annoying. The other rifle, the early L461 is going to loose the scope and I'll move the peep sight onto it, as it never had the rear elevation sight, I'll also reinstall the front hood and post - again I'll just use it for 'fun'.

Cheers
Piper
 

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piper,the stub shaft(pin)installed in the shroud was a change that is associated with the model 74 super that as far as I know was in 1974.The pin provides a point for support of rhe shroud when cocking and insures proper alignment of the cocking piece to the sear.Sako advised the the pin was essential for safety.The mechanism will function without the pin but is not safe to use without the pin.Ihe pin has become loose and fallen out on occasion so keep and eye on that.The pin on that model was used instead of machineing flats on the bottom of the shroud to support it.That change did not last long and the flats were brough back as they were a superior means of supporting the shroud during cocking.
Jim
 
bolt shrouds 002.JPG bolt shrouds 001.JPG bolt shrouds 004.JPG

The shots above shows bolts from; 1960 (L579), 1964 (L579), 1973 (L579) and 1970 (L61R)
Included is the shot with caliper, ALL shrouds measure 1.022"...Topgear, the pics of your L61R bolts, in the way they were laid out , I could not see clearly if you had the 3rd lug. Clearly you do...Another thing on shrouds that I recall is that some of the very early examples had linear grooves cut in the top as opposed to the typical sako cross-hatching(shot #3)...this, to my understanding was short lived...My 1960 L579 has these grooves, my 1964 L579 has cross-hatching as does my 1973 L579 and this one also has the stub shaft or pin (M-74)...From what I see, the cocking piece, striker and firing pin are the big difference between US Imports and OZ Imports in this thread, or at least whats been shown thus far...and from the reports on foxes that die traveling to and from the chicken houses, Sako accuracy has not been compromised by this new "sakoddity"~Bloo
 
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This is a fantastically informative thread -- and thanks for the great photos, Piper235b!

As I said in another post, I've never seen the recessed striker (firing pin) assembly in a Sako in the U.S. in forty-five years of looking, so their origin is quite a puzzle, as is the fact that they seem to be limited to Australia, at least so far as info on this thread has revealed.

One thing which is obvious about the recessed striker is that its mass would appear to be significantly less than that of the "regular" striker. This would mean several things: One, the firing pin fall (lock time) would be faster, assuming the same weight spring. Two, the firing pin striking force (momentum) would be lighter due to the lighter mass. Three, unless a significantly stronger spring were used, the striking force of the firing pin might be marginal for thick/hard primers, but the action's accuracy potential would be theoretically improved due to the faster lock time and less inertia imapacting the aim of the rifle when the striker is released. I wonder if anyone has observed any difference in ignition between the two types of firing pin assemblies?
 
I've seen one of the 'short striker' Sakos in Oz (Townsville). It was a HB 222 with a single set trigger (Canjar?), and the owner was telling me how great the microgroove barrel was.

Strange that the microgroove barrels made it to the US, but the short strikers did not?
 
No doubt one of these Aussie issue 'short striker', M marked micro groove rifles would be very desireable in a US collection. Being the generous type of bloke I am, I'm prepared to swap my ratty old .222 for a pristine Deluxe .222. PM me now......what's that you say...."tell him he's dreaming"....

Two other thoughts on their possible origin:-
(A) in the best Australian scrounging tradition ....the importers bought them 'cheap'.
(B) they were experimental and sent out here for market testing. (It has been happening for years with cars).

Cheers
Piper
 
Well I've looked back through some stuff I have and I believe these cocking pieces run from about 1962/63 until around 1966/67 here in Australia. They are all definitely factory and like I say I've seen a lot of them (50-100 individual rifles). All rifles I've seen of this era have the short cocking piece out here.

Considering Australia's market share (total population of the country was only 11 million in 1965 compared to the US with 195 million) I find it hard to believe you would bother changing the cocking piece to save a few cents just for ozzies. Also if it was experimental it seems to have went on for quiet a few years?

So ...... I don't know.

One thing D.W. Custer (the importer) definitely did some good deals with sako and they seemed to do some amazing one off stuff just for his company and know one else. For instance the DW Custer commerative finnwolf stock has a total of only 105 units which have a special checkering pattern and there were super deluxe stocks out here on the AI, AII and AIII. Maybe his daughter was married to someone of sako fame! so could call in some favours :)

Stonecreek - I use remington primers (known to be hard) and have never had an issue. I knew of a roo shooter here in oz who went through 4 barrels on a .222 L461. All he replaced apart from the barrells was the extractor. So I don't think weakness has ever been a problem- but maybe it uses a different spring?
 
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Topgear- Makes me wonder if they used the same springs (size) of the L579s or even the L57 springs that may have been left over from the end of production. It would be somewhat interesting to see a direct comparison with the L57 or 579 series.(firing pin assemblies) Thanks for all the fine pictures and the content. We await further surprises from Sako.-Misako
 
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gunner620,
Thanks for the info re the pin. By chance I have a L579 .243 sporter with the same pin on the side. So to recap - they were only made in 1974, is that correct?

Any Aussies with Austalian information on these models?
Thanks

Moderators - Sorry if this is hijacking the original post, if so, please move this to the appropiate place.
 

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Piper...No worries. Hijacking happens sometimes...I think the "Pin" hung around until '77-'78...phased out by the A Series~Bloo
 
piper,not sure when Sako totally got away from useing the pin and with Sako no part goes unused so ???? I have a 270 winchester L61R that I bought new in 1975 that had the pin
it fell out at some point (don't know when) I am sure the rifle was used after the failure and continued to function.Once noticed it bothered me and I was able to find a shroud of the older type (with flats) and replaced it.That solved the problem and the rifle and me are both happy now.For information the shroud for the L579 and the L61R will interchange.The pin failure has happened but not a real commom thing so I wouldn't worry about it.I would keep an eye on it though because of the safety related issues.Sako advised that a decock could occur caused by misalignment of the cocking piece if the rifle was used without the pin. Jim
 
Just found this .222 rem mag for sale and thought Id post the pic. Short cocking piece and the "M" stamp.

218526797_full.jpg


My own 5 digit L579 has the short cocking piece and the "M". Yes,"multigroove" barrel. The "M" stamp was discussed some time ago on the old site and we never really got to the bottom of it.
Going by this thread and the previous one it appears that rifles imported to Australia and NZ during that era that had the multigroove barrels were stamped with an "M". Maybe these particular rifles all had the short cocking pieces also ?
 
Hi.... I live in Indonesia where I could not buy a new gun due to the restriction here.. ( sucks )
previously I had sako rifle and I like it so much. Up until today I am still looking for second hand newer sako rifle.
Recently, I bought 2 sako with the bolt look like the picture ( top gear's picture ) , which I do not really like it. That is come from 223 AI 823804 and 7 rem mag L61R 522369.
Is there, anyway that I can change the shroud to a newer look or I am stuck with its model look.

Please advice.

Thanks
 
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