• Hey All! Lately there has been more and more scammers on the forum board. They register and replies to members requests for guns and/or parts or other things. The reply contains a gmail or hotmail address or similar ”anonymous” email addresses which they want you to reply to. DO NOT ANSWER ANY STRANGE MESSAGES! They often state something like this: ”Hello! Saw your post about purchasing a stock for a Safari. KnuckleheadBob has one. Email him at: [email protected]” If you receive any strange messages: Check the status of whoever message you. If they have no posts and signed up the same day or very recently, stay away. Same goes for other members they might refer to. Check them too and if they are long standing members, PM them and ask if the message is legit. Most likely it’s not. Then use the report function in each message or post so I can kick them out! Beware of anything that might seem fishy! And again, for all of you who registered your personal name as username, please contact me so I can change it to a more anonymous username. You’d be surprised of how much one can find out about a person from just a username on a forum such ad our! All the best! And be safe! Jim

North Dakota Mystery Rifle

Sako Collectors Club Discussion Forum

paulsonconstruction

Sako-addicted
I'm sure most of our members were aware of & had interest in the recent estate auction in North Dakota with dozens of nice Sako rifles. A few of you may remember a rather ordinary looking Sako Hi-Power with some unusual stampings that the auction house presented as a "possible" prototype with no caliber stamping. They did say it was chambered in 30-06, but whether they did a chamber casting to confirm is unknown. I was recently able to take some detailed close up pictures of this rifle & would be very interested in what you fellas think about it.
IMG_0319 sakohp full view right.jpg IMG_0320 sakohp full view left.jpg
It's in pretty good shape for a 70 year old rifle. The metal to wood fit is as good as I have ever seen. I had to bump up on the barrel to get the barreled action out of the stock & actually had to tap on the mag well with a brass hammer to get the bottom metal out. Inletting is perfection! The bore is like a mirror!

The barrel has the Finnish Lionhead proof stamp, but the face is looking downward at about a 45 degree angle. Next to it is the stylize NV, which is the Sako factory inspectors stamp that I'm sure you all recognize.
There is a 3 stamped on the side of the front action bridge & another 3 ,in a different font, stamped on the side of the action just to the rear of the front bridge.
IMG_0321 sakohp proof_insp stamp.jpg IMG_0323 sakohp "3" stamp.jpg

On top of the barrel, were we normally see SAKO & the caliber stamp on the later rifles, there is stamped Oy Sako Ab & Riihimaki Finland.
IMG_0322 sakohp bbl stamp.jpg

On the bottom of the action are some stampings that I attribute to FN as inspector & factory identification stampings applied in Belgium.
IMG_0332 sakohp bottom stamps.jpg
These are the only stampings. Sako is not stamped on the side of the barrel, nor is there a serial number in the 100,000's or a caliber stamping like you would see on other Sako Hi-Powers.

The front sight is just like other front sights I have seen on Sakos & is identical to one on a L46 I have, but the checkering pattern is a little different. The indentation in the hood groove match a Sako hood protrusions & a Sako hood fits perfectly. The dovetailed insert is an exact match to my other Sakos.
IMG_0324 sakohp ft. sight.jpg

The buttplate is self explanatory.
IMG_0329 sakohp buttplate.jpg

The grip cap is an exact match to my L46 Varmint.
IMG_0330 sakohp grip cap.jpg

The full wrap around checkering on the forearm is "almost" a match to a L46 I have.
IMG_0326 sakohp fore check.jpg

The grip checkering is "close" to what I have on other Sakos.
IMG_0327 sakohp grip check side.jpg IMG_0328 sakohp grip check top.jpg

The cheekpiece is kind of a cross between the pancake style of the early L46 & the Monte Claro of the later ones.
IMG_0331 sakohp butt checkpiece.jpg

The sling swivels are a dead ringer for ones I have on other Sakos.
IMG_0325 sakohp sling swivel.jpg

I think there is enough evidence to be fairly certain that the barreled action was built at the Sako factory, but the lack of stampings that a "normal" Hi-Power would have leaves it open to speculation as to why it was built, if it was ever marketed through normal channels, & how in the heck did it end up in North Dakota!!
Although the provenance on the stock is not as strong (as we all know buttplates, grip caps, & sling swivels are interchangeable) I feel, after having had this rifle in my hands, that the stock is factory built as well.

I have a "theory" about this gun, but would very much like to get more input from the club & see if any of you can find a match for some of the features, especially for the stock, with any of the Sakos in your safes.

I doubt this rifle will ever have much collector interest or monetary value above what I gave for it, but I think it's one of the more interesting Sakos I have run across and I think it's a pretty cool gun. If it remains a mystery, so be it. Thanks in advance for any insight!
 

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Although there’s probably no way to confirm, I’d say your rifle could be a prototype, or a one off for an employee, or someone who had a high degree of influence. As you’ve stated it is very well executed with regard to fit and finish and the stamps lend to the period. I find the number 3 very curious.

I also find it interesting that there’s no rear sight as was typical for the period. Obviously, without (rear) dovetails, the only way to utilize the front sight is with a receiver sight of some sort, or a set of factory irons. Is there evidence of a prior sight being removed? I suppose (pure speculation) the front sight was installed in case a receiver or iron sights were ever wanted as a backup. I can see the front bridge is drilled and tapped, how about the rear?

A very unique rifle without a doubt, glad you ended up with it.
 
Interesting rifle! Identifying its provenance gets into the area of rank speculation, but I agree with Paulson that everything about it looks as if it came from the Sako factory.

It has the early LH wing safety, so it is certainly from before 1958(?) or thereabouts.

The barrel contour isn't at all like the typical Sako-Mausers -- but it is very, very similar to the early L46's with the sharp step down just in front of the action face. Also, the typical Sako-Mausers had the Sako identification and serial number stamped lengthwise with the barrel rather than radially -- but the radial stamping is also comports with the L46's being produced when this rifle was probably produced.

All of the commercially released Sako-Mausers were numbered in the 100,000's on the LH side of the barrel and not on the action. The single digit SN on this one appears on both the barrel and the action.

I've got to think that this rifle was most likely a one-off made to the specifications of an employee or someone who otherwise specially ordered it with the slight Monte Carlo and lighter contour barrel. While it could be a prototype, the early Sako-Mausers had a straight stock and the later ones a full monte carlo. I can think of no other example of a factory Sako stock with the "semi-monte carlo" exhibited by this one, which causes me to believe that the stock dimensions were specified for an individual.

But remember, this opinion and $2 will buy you a cup of coffee many places.
 
Bigcountry4me: The rear bridge is D&T'd for a scope base & on the right side as well for a receiver sight. Doesn't appear to have ever had a rear barrel mounted sight. I think I'll put a XS System rear ghost ring sight on it. It will mount in the scope base holes so no alteration required.
 
Stonecreek: Interesting take on the stock being made for an individual customer or employee. But that still leaves me wondering, why no caliber stamping? Wouldn't a special order gun be stamped with a caliber & SN? BTW, both "3's" are on the action.
 
Amazing rifle PC
I noticed the similarity of the barrel contour to the L46’s, as well as several other Sakoesque attributes. Even the circumferential barrel stamping seems to make sense to be factory. I’m baffled that there is no caliber or chambering stamp. To me that would have been a mandatory rule of thumb.
Prototype or one off special, either way, it’s super unique. Very cool find.

Hippie
 
Paulson: Have you checked to see if the caliber might be stamped on the rear face of the barrel? And is the action a "C" ring or an "H" ring? I'm not well-educated on the FN Mausers, but I think the "C" ring is the earlier of the two.
 
Nothing stamped on the rear barrel face. I'm not sure on the C or H thing either. I am taking it to a friend who bought a Hi-Power at the same auction with the Sako #4 trigger, so we know it is a later one & see if I can tell any other differences in the actions. I'm also going to do a chamber cast to confirm what it is.
 
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Amazing rifle PC
I noticed the similarity of the barrel contour to the L46’s, as well as several other Sakoesque attributes. Even the circumferential barrel stamping seems to make sense to be factory. I’m baffled that there is no caliber or chambering stamp. To me that would have been a mandatory rule of thumb.
Prototype or one off special, either way, it’s super unique. Very cool find.

Hippie
I was baffled by the lack of interest during the auction & thought maybe I was the fool. Hardly any bidding on it & when the hammer dropped at $600 I didn't know quite how to feel. When I got it in hand I now think even with the 10% premium & the FFL/shipping fees @ $745 it was well worth it.
 
Heck yeah! You didn’t get hurt none on that!
I looked at the auction earlier on..I saw so many Sako’s I didn’t have, I freaked out and stayed away until it was over. Then when it was over I kicked myself hard for not going after a couple of them as they went for less than I figured! Oh well, you win some…

Hippie
 
I was baffled by the lack of interest during the auction & thought maybe I was the fool. Hardly any bidding on it & when the hammer dropped at $600 I didn't know quite how to feel. When I got it in hand I now think even with the 10% premium & the FFL/shipping fees @ $745 it was well worth it.

That was a great buy, and one, amongst a few others that had my attention.

We know that Sako did a lot of ‘prototype’ stuff back in the day. Whether or not yours came came direct from the factory that way, while intriguing, would be of little concern.

Very cool rifle.
 
Paulson: Have you checked to see if the caliber might be stamped on the rear face of the barrel? And is the action a "C" ring or an "H" ring? I'm not well-educated on the FN Mausers, but I think the "C" ring is the earlier of the two.
I compared the Sako Hi-Power my friend got with the Sako #4 trigger to mine and other than the rear bolt safety mine has the actions are identical. I'm not sure how that dates or places mine or whether & how Sako used the "C" & "H" variations in it's production. If someone has more knowledge or has insight in this matter, please chime in!
 
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Thats one of the earliest FN action-Sako barreled and stocked rifles that they started importing in 270 and 30-06 in the early 1950s. It looks like one of the earliest variants as my grandfather had one of each caliber of the earliest imported as he had a couple WW2 buddies that worked for the right company. Same guys got him great deals on the earliest Browning Safari's and O/U shotgun variants. Anyway, he also had purchased a couple more a couple years later for his sons, my uncles and they looked a bit differently than the initial earliest pair of rifles did. He also bought a couple of the short action calibers in 308 and i believe 222 or something of the sort and those had Browning actions that were barreled and stocked by Sako.

These two Looks IDENTICAL to both of his rifles from what memory is feeding me. WOW! I would love to take that one out and smack a bear or buck with it. Great find!

NICE NICE NICE pick up. Browning snapped up the FN action when SAKO stopped and the safari hi power was born.

Those rifles actually won me a $200 and a case of beer of my choice bet from Elk camp! LOL! Sitting around the fire having a couple toddys and one of my cousins argued with me about the rifle and in the end he lost! There have been a couple articles on these exact variants over the years and you could probably find something on then without too much hassle.
 
Thats one of the earliest FN action-Sako barreled and stocked rifles that they started importing in 270 and 30-06 in the early 1950s. It looks like one of the earliest variants as my grandfather had one of each caliber of the earliest imported as he had a couple WW2 buddies that worked for the right company. Same guys got him great deals on the earliest Browning Safari's and O/U shotgun variants. Anyway, he also had purchased a couple more a couple years later for his sons, my uncles and they looked a bit differently than the initial earliest pair of rifles did. He also bought a couple of the short action calibers in 308 and i believe 222 or something of the sort and those had Browning actions that were barreled and stocked by Sako.

These two Looks IDENTICAL to both of his rifles from what memory is feeding me. WOW! I would love to take that one out and smack a bear or buck with it. Great find!

NICE NICE NICE pick up. Browning snapped up the FN action when SAKO stopped and the safari hi power was born.

Those rifles actually won me a $200 and a case of beer of my choice bet from Elk camp! LOL! Sitting around the fire having a couple toddys and one of my cousins argued with me about the rifle and in the end he lost! There have been a couple articles on these exact variants over the years and you could probably find something on then without too much hassle.
Thanks for the input! Mine not having a caliber stamping makes me think it was not made for import to any country, but it's nice to know there were other rifles made with the same features in the early stages of production. BTW, I don't think Browning ever made it's own action but used FN & Sako actions in the rifles FN built for them. Sako provided actions to FN to build Browning rifles. Browning never had a factory & never built any rifles. All Browning rifles were built by FN or Miroku to Brownings specs. Browning didn't "snap up the FN action", as the Mauser action existed long before & long after the Browning "Hi-Power" was made. To my knowledge, Sako never built complete rifles for Browning nor did they ever barrel & stock "Browning" actions. Sako didn't stop making a long action rifle, they merely started using their own long action, the L61R. In fact, the early Brownings & the late Sako "Hi-Powers" were competitors for a time. The earlier Browning "HI-Powers" were built on the FN action by FN. They switched over to the Sako actions (using all three action sizes) in the early 1960's, IIRC. The Sako actioned Brownings were still built by FN. If you have documentation to the contrary, please share.
 
When i said "browning actions" I figured its a given as they were made by FN! LOL! FN has always made the majority of Browning rifles and Shotguns we are talking about prior to going to Japan/Miroku. But then FN bought Browning in the 70's so egg or the chicken? LOL! As far as "snapped up", they sure did snap up the contract to have FN build the actions after Sako went another direction. And aware there was some 3 way lovin that went on for a very short time as well when they used Sako on the short actions for a bit.

Well aware of what Browning did and when for the MOST PART but ill be learning til the day i die. I have owned well over 100 Superposed variants and Citori's of ALL grades and used to have a fairly large collection of pre garcia sako's as well and Browning safaris /hi powers etc etc. After ALL THAT IS SAID...I learn new stuff all the time and try and keep my mind open to doing so as i guarantee i dont know everything thats for sure. I do know what ive owned and seen with my own eyes as well as what has been in our family etc.

Took me a few minutes but i found the article from Turner/Chuck Hawkes again that says pretty much what i remember. And your rifle would not be the first to come into this country in that time period without caliber designation stamped anywhere on the rifle and it could be an early import where it was flat missed as that stuff did happen "back in the day". Or it could be a re-barrel who knows for sure. It was much more the wild west pre 1960s vs post '68 thats for sure. Again, who really knows for sure and you can cook up any story you like...but id bet one of two things...rebarrel or it was flat missed as it might have been a very early variant where the factory got ahead of themselves and blew it. Who knows... ive seen all kinds of stuff over the decades. Your gun...call it what you will.

Take a read:
 
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