L579 .308 safety/trigger question

[Azazel]

I have a early/mid 80s Forester L579 in .308 that has a safety issue. Uder recoil the safety sometimes engages itself. Any ideas on how to fix it? In trying to do some research I see some mentions in adjusting the trigger pull weight to "check to make sure the safety functions". Is my possible issue that a previous owner set the trigger pull weight too low and that is allowing the safety to pop in to the safe position under recoil sometimes? The issue seems more prevalent shooting from a bench than off hand positions. It isn't every time, maybe 1 in 8 it'll engage. Not the best thing in the world when actually hunting with it (though I've yet to have it engage while hunting).

I don't have a trigger pull gauge, but my highly calibrated finger (it isn't that calibrated) would guess it's right about the bottom of the trigger pull weight if it ranges from 3-6lbs. It is slightly lighter than my AR LaRue 2-stage trigger that is 3.5lbs.

Outside of that being a possible cause, how can I go about fixing this? I've never worked on a Sako, but I have smithed a LOT of guns. Poking on Numerich, it looks like the safety detent ball and spring are replaceable parts, though no one has them.

Just looking for any options that isn't tracking down a $200+ original Sako trigger or getting a Timney trigger to replace the FCG (not that Timney triggers are bad, but I'd like to keep it as original as possible).

Thanks in advance.

 

[kevinlg]

It seems that the safety lever, itself, may be too loose.

If it's the Sako #4 factory trigger assembly......then you just tighten the ball detent set screw. It is located on the upper left side of the trigger housing.
Be sure that the ball and spring are properly positioned inside the housing.

Note......after setting.....I put a drop of clear fingernail polish on the outside of the set screw, to hold it's position.

Hope this helps.

 

[stonecreek]

I think Kevin is on the right track. Have you checked to see that the ball/spring detent is in place? They are easy to lose if the trigger is disassembled. The screw that holds the safety in place has a shoulder on it so that when it is screwed down firmly the shoulder should allow the safety just enough slack to operate. It is possible that some previous owner "improved" this shoulder and it isn't holding the safety in place as firmly as it is designed to do.

 

[Azazel]

So this is the same trigger in my L579. I just want to make sure which screw we are talking about.

I just had it apart. The two larger screws that hold the safety latch on the side there I tightened down (opposite side of the trigger in this picture). They were not particularly loose, but they did tighten down probably half a turn starting with likely 5-8in-lbs of torque up to maybe 20-30in-lbs before I figured any tighter and I was going to chance stripping the screw heads or possibly causing problems. Looking at the picture, I am guessing the ball detent for the safety is the blued screw head top, center?

Playing with the trigger with the action out of the stock, everything seems good. I didn't see your replies before I checked it over, so I didn't pay attention to that set screw. The safety has very slight side to side play (very slight). It does have firm clicks on and off. With the bolt de-cocked, it takes some force to push the safety back (it obviously won't engage, but it does move back far enough to prevent the bolt from unlocking). It isn't a ton of force, but you kind of have to mean to move it (it requires a push, versus just touching it). Of course, again, in shooting it does apparently manage to come back and engage.

One final note, the last time I had it at the range I realized after about a dozen shots that the actions screws were loose in the stock as my POI was changing a lot. I grabbed the barrel and it shifted around large fractions of an inch! I assume they worked loose over time, but it certainly had some play. That was a sphincter tightening moment that I'd been battering her in the stock. No cracks in the stock or anything else. That is one last thing I've been wondering if the gun has been loose in the stock for a long time and it shifting in the stock could maybe have pushed the safety. The safety does not rub the stock normally, but I don't know if it was slightly loose if it would. I have had the gun out of the stock previously, but I can't recall if the last time I did was before or after the safety issue started happening. It was at least a couple of years ago that I both had it out of the stock (which I think I've only done once or twice in the 6 years I've owned the rifle) as well as the safety issue started. At least my first year or two of owning the rifle the safety was not causing any problems and it was at least a couple of years of owning the rifle before I had it out of the stock to look it over, clean, and lubricate/oil the metal.

On reassembly this time (just now as well as when I found them loose my last range trip) I used some pink (lowest yield) locktite on the action screws to keep them from working loose again.

Also thanks!

 

[Azazel]

Also for removing the fire control group, just push out the forward pin? Or is there more to remove? Thanks.

 

[bloorooster]

Eeeww! Not locktite!
Wood shrinks over time, even from the 80’s. It’s always a priority to check action screws on any turnbolt rifles. They do become loose. This may have been the reason you were having problems with your safety.
Take it back apart and clean the locktite off. It’s really not necessary and will cause more harm than good. Put it all back together (again) and test it when it’s good and tight. Not like ratchet wrench tight either. Firm enough to hold but not so tight that you are compressing the wood. Please try to use the proper screw driver size as to not booger things up.
Let us know how it goes! Good luck!

 

[paulsonconstruction]

Locktite!!!! Why? Screws don't "work" loose. Wood shrinks & swells, so action screws NEED to be checked periodically. Locktite is worthless if the wood shrinks. I think stonecreek said it best, "There is a special place in Hell for people that use Locktite on firearms".

 

[stonecreek]

The movement of your safety lever under recoil may very well have something to do with loose action screws.

However, the Sako safety is designed NOT to go into the "safe" position when the bolt is not cocked. Forcing it to do so is putting a strain on the entire trigger housing, especially the screws that mount the safety to the trigger housing. By definition, when the gun fires it is uncocked, so if your safety is "jumping" into the rearward position then something's not right.

Did you remove the safety mounting screws or just tighten them? If you only tightened them then you wouldn't be able to see if the detent ball/spring is properly in place.

Trigger adjusting instructions can be found by doing a search on the forum's search feature. Familiarize yourself with the function of the various screws and lock nuts before messing any further with the trigger.

And run, don't walk, to a wire wheel or other suitable device with those action screws and remove every licking bit of the eff-ing Loctite. When you get them cleaned up re-insert them with just a very light tad bit of oil on them. This allows you to get them tighter with less pressure. They'll stay where you put them, but over time the wood will not. By the way, an even worse sin is putting Loctite on any part of a scope mount. If you or someone else has done this then it is imperative that you undo it -- if it is still possible.

Kevin's practice of putting a dab of clear nail polish on the head or tip of an exposed screw is okay if it helps you sleep better at night.

 

[bloorooster]

Be sure from now on to store your effing locktite with the effing JB Weld and effing concrete mix in the garage , with your auto mechanic tools, away from your Smithing tools and firearms.

 

[Azazel]

Be sure from now on to store your effing locktite with the effing JB Weld and effing concrete mix in the garage , with your auto mechanic tools, away from your Smithing tools and firearms.

Lol. Message received guys, I'll clean the locktite off the action screws. Sometimes it is needed on certain firearm parts (like gas block set screws...), but I hear you on the action screws.

I only tightened the safety mounting screws, I didn't remove them. And yes, I have a very complete set of gunsmithing tools, so I've been using the proper profiled and full width flathead screw driver rather than just a wedge flathead. No boogering of screws from me! I already had to replace all of the Sako scope ring screws because some previous idiot had just destroyed the heads on them. I'll sheepishly admit I did not replace them with the proper flat head screws, I found some torx screws of the same length and thread pitch.

I'll clean up those action screws and just double check the screw for the safety when I have it apart. As for the safety engaging, it isn't moving fully back in to safe. It shifts backwards just far enough that it locks the bolt. I can do that by hand with the gun uncocked also. I'd guess the safety lever moves about a third of the way backwards before it hits a wall (no, I am not trying to push it past that point, I know it won't actually engage fully). It requires some force, but not an extraordinary amount. No more than you'd normally use to engage the safety to move it backwards that third of the way.

 

[kevinlg]

The safety lever will not move fully rearward with the firing pin "down"(in the fired position)..........nor was it ever designed to do so.
What small movement there is.....is due to a slight rotation of the internal safety "drum" , before the drum jams against the forward upper surface of the trigger lever(which would be in its fired position).

Note that there are ONLY two ball-detent dimple recess positions, on the inside surface of the safety lever.
In other words......the trigger assembly design only allows for TWO safety lever operational positions..........SAFE.....and.....FIRE.

Hope this helps.

 

[Jeffy1]

If there is one thing I have learned on this forum, it's stay away from locktite.

 

[bigcountry4me]

there is one thing I have learned on this forum, it's stay away from locktite.

Yep, and what’s my gun worth.

 

[Azazel]

The safety lever will not move fully rearward with the firing pin "down"(in the fired position)..........nor was it ever designed to do so.
What small movement there is.....is due to a slight rotation of the internal safety "drum" , before the drum jams against the forward upper surface of the trigger lever(which would be in its fired position).

Note that there are ONLY two ball-detent dimple recess positions, on the inside surface of the safety lever.
In other words......the trigger assembly design only allows for TWO safety lever operational positions..........SAFE.....and.....FIRE.

Hope this helps.

Thanks. Yup, that sounds like what is going on if I could translate what I can see of the parts to what it looks like and feels like with it assembled. The safety moves reward just a bit and then the drum of the safety runs up against the trigger lever. It for sure isn't moving back into any kind of detent, but binding against the trigger which prevents it from moving further rearward.

 

[tilleyman]

Here's an exploded view of the Sako No 4 trigger, which may help?

 

[Azazel]

Here's an exploded view of the Sako No 4 trigger, which may help?

It does a lot, thanks!

 

[Azazel]

Just an update, I sat down this morning and pulled it back apart. I was able to get several turns of the safety ball detent screw in...and then realized that basically locks the safety. So I backed it off and then adjusted it to a nice proper amount of tension. It is noticeably stiffer to operate the safety now. Not too hard, but similar to my Howa now in needing a reasonable push on the safety, vs light pressure. My totally uncalibrated thumb would have called it around 2lbs of pressure before, it's probably 4lbs of pressure now. I also cleaned off the action screws of locktite and reassembled. I also noticed one of the metal shims that was between the action and the stock was sitting on my worktable. Oops. That went back in too.

I was not able to put a drop of nail polish on the screw largely because my daughter has all of the nail polish hidden...somewhere. It's a LARGE box, so I assume it is my usual inability to find anything in plain sight. At any rate, I'll put a drop on after hitting the range next and testing it just to be sure.

Thanks again everyone! Very much appreciated.

 

[Azazel]

Also the old lady in her glory. I guess old being relative, almost the same age I am, give or take a year from what I recall. Come to think I guess that is getting old.

 

[bloorooster]

Could you supply a photo of the receiver stamping?
From the photo above , your rifle appears to be an AII , with the enclosed bolt shroud.
Gorgeous timber BTW!

 

[Azazel]

Could you supply a photo of the receiver stamping?
From the photo above , your rifle appears to be an AII , with the enclosed bolt shroud.
Gorgeous timber BTW!

Yes, it's an AII. I'll grab a picture next time I am in my safe

Sadly the wood on the other side and bottom isn't quite as nice. It isn't bad, but there are a couple of dents on the forend on the other side and the bottom has a couple smaller scuff, plus the pistol grip cap has two small chips knocked out of the wood. It is still in pretty good shape as it bumped around the woods for at least 20, 30 years before it ended up in a safe for a number of years before it made its way to me. The metal is in fantastic shape.

I mostly archery hunt deer where I live, but it was my first Rifle I used to harvest a deer when I started hunting a few years ago (this'll be season 8 for me). First, first deer was with a muzzleloader. It is a fair weather rife for me as I don't want to beat it up.