• Hey All! Lately there has been more and more scammers on the forum board. They register and replies to members requests for guns and/or parts or other things. The reply contains a gmail or hotmail address or similar ”anonymous” email addresses which they want you to reply to. DO NOT ANSWER ANY STRANGE MESSAGES! They often state something like this: ”Hello! Saw your post about purchasing a stock for a Safari. KnuckleheadBob has one. Email him at: [email protected]” If you receive any strange messages: Check the status of whoever message you. If they have no posts and signed up the same day or very recently, stay away. Same goes for other members they might refer to. Check them too and if they are long standing members, PM them and ask if the message is legit. Most likely it’s not. Then use the report function in each message or post so I can kick them out! Beware of anything that might seem fishy! And again, for all of you who registered your personal name as username, please contact me so I can change it to a more anonymous username. You’d be surprised of how much one can find out about a person from just a username on a forum such ad our! All the best! And be safe! Jim

Gun Show Find - Valmet 412 Engraved Set

Sako Collectors Club Discussion Forum

icebear

Sako-addicted
Today was the local gun show. I spend a couple of hours walking around, my eyes glaze over at table after table of AR-15's and plastic .380's, and I'm getting bored and it's almost time to bag it. I'd seen a couple of interesting handguns, a Colt Gold Cup and a Ruger .41 Magnum Redhawk with a 2x Leupold, but neither made me want to let go of $1200. Then, in the last faraway corner of the show, I spotted a fitted case with what looked like it might be a Valmet 412. And indeed it was. And what a Valmet! The deluxe, engraved, high-end two-barrel set with 9.3x74R double rifle barrels and 12 gauge shotgun barrels with screw-in chokes. And an extra stock and forend to go with the shotgun barrels. And the famous Valmet combination choke wrench/bottle opener. And the original Valmet manual and proof certificates for both barrel sets. And a fitted aluminum case with a zippered canvas cover. And, to put the chocolate sauce on the sundae, seven boxes of 9.3x74R ammo (6 Norma, 1 Hornady) and a set of Hornady dies still in the sealed plastic wrapper. Money changed hands and the whole shootin' match came home in my pickup.

I knew these sets existed but I'd never seen one in person. I don't know if this was a regular production item or some kind of commemorative. I doubt many were ever made. It's engraved everywhere including the scope mount . There are three engraved animals on the receiver: a bear, a lion, and a duck. This fits the two sets of barrels provided - the 9.3x74R is a dangerous-game cartridge. The engraving extends even to the forend latch.

The three-leaf folding express sights (75/150/250 m) and the filler piece between the barrels are luxury touches not found on standard grade Valmet double rifles. The hooded front sight has a white bead. The QD scope mount mates to an alignment notch on the receiver, ensuring a return to zero if it is removed.

I'm not sure whether the fitted case is original or was added by the dealer who sold it (there was a note from a dealer in Vegas tucked inside one of the spare chokes). The foam in the case looks like it was cut by hand, not on a factory pattern, and there are cutouts whose purpose I cannot guess. The leather label on the canvas cover reads Dunn's. In any case, it's a heavy, rugged aluminum case that holds and protects the whole set nicely.

I don't think this set has ever been fired since it left Tourula. There's no sign of use on either set of barrels, and the seller told me that neither he nor the guy he got it from had ever fired it. No cartridges are missing from the seven boxes of ammo. The surface gunk feels like it is left over from 1989, when the shotgun barrels were proofed. Lockup is so tight that I may have to use a rubber mallet to get it open to clean it up.

I did have one Sako-related encounter at the show. I dropped by to talk to a dealer who had had an interesting L61R .338 Deluxe at the previous show. (I posted something about it at the time.) The rifle had some fancy carving on the stock, including an elaborate carving of a bear on the right side of the buttstock. I've seen photos of one or two carvings like it in photos posted on this forum. As it happened, a guy was there buying that very rifle. It was his first Sako and he was quite excited about it. I told him about the Sako Collectors Club and encouraged him to visit the website, register as a member, and post photos of his new Sako. We'll see if he follows up.

Here are some photos of my new Valmet set. I'm hyped to shoot it, but that will depend on the weather and how long it takes me to clean the dried gunk off it.

Cased Set 2.JPG Double Rifle 1.JPG Double Rifle 2.JPG Rifle Stock L.JPG Rifle Stock R.JPG Scope Mount L.JPG Shtogun Stock L.JPG Shtogun Stock R.JPG Bear.JPG Duck 1.JPG Lion.JPG Forend Latch Rifle.JPG
 
Hey icebear,

Well done … terrific acquisition. Good to see that you are nurturing your Valmet interest.

Thanks for your good description and photos of the 412S.

You may recall an interchange on here about varying widths of the cocking slide. I am guessing your new ones are the thinner alternative?

You mention that the hooded front sight has a white bead. A close up photo of the bead would be very interesting.

The three-leaf folding sights are terrific.

That spare stock is an item of interest.

At the other end of the Valmet foodchain, two or three months ago I obtained an Italian Tikka 512 with 12 gauge barrels and screw in chokes. The Tikka website says the barrels will fit Valmet 412 receivers. But one of my kids picked the Tikka up at the post office and it somehow has yet to find its way to my place.

And as noted elsewhere on this website, for one of my 412 I have a new and cool Sako made mount, but had to settle for a 30mm model. I am learning that older 30mm scopes are more expensive than 26mm or one inch. And finding a new fixed power 30mm seems unheard of.

Except for passing through by train a few years ago on a business trip, I have not been to Arizona. I will be there briefly in late September, however. But unfortunately I will be working, so I cannot attempt to intrude to ogle the Valmet prize.
 
Just as with the eternal "Say-ko vs. Sah-ko" argument, I've always wondered whether it is properly "Val-met or Val-meh"? (Or something else entirely.)

A very nice find, by the way.
 
I've always wondered whether it is properly "Val-met or Val-meh"?
It's VAHL-met, in both Finnish and English. Val-MAY would be French, which has no relationship.

And by the way, Valmet is an acronym or contraction like Sako. It stands for Valtion Metallitehtaat (State Metal Factories). Valmet was a consolidation of several state-owned enterprises and the direct successor to VKT (Valtion Kivääritehdas), the State Rifle Factory. Valmet made all kinds of things, including a high-quality line of farm tractors. The arms business was spun off into Sako some years ago. The Valmet company has been reconstituted as a supplier of high-tech industrial items.
 
You may recall an interchange on here about varying widths of the cocking slide. I am guessing your new ones are the thinner alternative?
Correct. This gun has the narrower version; my 20 gauge, which is a 412 without the S, has the wider one.

You mention that the hooded front sight has a white bead. A close up photo of the bead would be very interesting.
Here you go. The shotgun also has white beads (ivory?), compared to bright metal on the standard grade guns.
Front Sight1a.jpg

The three-leaf folding sights are terrific.
Here's a close-up.
Express Sights 1a.jpg

for one of my 412 I have a new and cool Sako made mount, but had to settle for a 30mm model.
You can get adapters to mount a 1" scope in 30mm rings

. Try the dealers selling better-quality tactical stuff. A lot of them sell 30mm Picatinny rings with 1" adapters, and sometimes you can buy the adapters separately. Or whoever you use for gun parts. I mostly use Brownells for that sort of thing, but I don't know how expensive it gets to ship stuff across the border.

Except for passing through by train a few years ago on a business trip, I have not been to Arizona. I will be there briefly in late September, however. But unfortunately I will be working, so I cannot attempt to intrude to ogle the Valmet prize.
You would be welcome to drop by. Maybe next time.
 
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Here's a bit more information about the Valmet set. Just to clarify, this is a 412S, a late version of the 412 with some minor changes and improvements. The Bluebook of Gun Values states that Valmet offered engraved guns as a special order item, with four different stock patterns to choose from. No further info, and no pictures. (The Bluebook doesn't do photos.) In any case, I think these guns are a step above a regular deluxe option. The express sights, the filler between the barrels, and the extra furniture to go with the shotgun barrels suggest something more special. I Googled 412 double rifle pictures for quite a while and never found another one with the barrel filler.

I have two issues to consider in preparing the rifle for use. First is the regulation of the barrels. Double rifles require fiddling to get both barrels to shoot to the same zero, and generally the regulation is good for one specific load at a particular range (usually 75 yards, I think). The gun was most likely factory regulated for the 286 grain load, while most of the ammo I got with the gun is 232 grain. The Valmet does have provision for the end user to adjust the barrel regulation, and an over/under is easier to regulate than a side-by-side, but I'm hoping I don't have to mess with this.

The other question is what to do about a scope. I'm definitely going to shoot it with the open sights, which are excellent, but I think a low-power scope would be a nice addition, especially since the mount is already there. I'm thinking of maybe the old Redfield Widefield with the TV-screen picture, in either 2.75x fixed, 2-7x variable, or 1-4x (if they even made a Widefield version). Or a Leupold 3x, 2-7x, 1.75-6x, or 1-5x. Or anything similar in a European scope - the rifle merits a Swarovski (or Zeiss, Schmidt & Bender, etc.) if I can find one at a reasonable price.

The 9.3x74R is an interesting caliber. It was developed in Germany as a counterpart to the English 400/360 Nitro Express. The standard load is a 286 grain pointed soft point at 2280 f/s for 3280 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. This puts it at the light end of the dangerous game category. It is considered suitable for any North American game, including the largest bears, and has been widely used in Africa, although it is not legal everywhere for buffalo and some other species, where a .375 H&H is the minimum. For longer shots on smaller game, there's a 232 grain loading that moves out at 2630 f/s for over 3500 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. The caliber has long been a European favorite for double rifles and drillings, including the famous Luftwaffe survival drilling. Valmet also made a combination barrel assembly with 12 gauge on top and 9.3x74R on the bottom. These are scarce, especially in the US. The 9.3x62 was developed to duplicate the ballistics of the 9.3x74R in a cartridge suitable for a Mauser bolt action. It is sort of a .35 Whelen on steroids, but has more punch than the Whelen in most typical loadings.

Here are a few more photos.
Shotgun Set 1a.jpg Ammo-Dies 1a.jpg Canvas Shell 1a.jpg

And one final photo - for comparison, my standard grade 20 gauge Valmet 412 (not 412S). Nice gun with pretty wood, but nothing like the one I just acquired.
412 20 gauge 1.JPG
 
That rifle is "screaming" for a 3X Leupold. Please answer it's prayers!
That would be an excellent choice for sure. The only problem is that they are extremely hard to find and the only one I own already has a very happy home.
M70-1.JPG
M70-5.JPG
Winchester Model 70, pre-64, .300 H&H, Super Grade stock, Griffin & Howe QD side mount.
 
Here are a photos of the gun in shotgun configuration, one by itself and one with a standard grade 412 in 20 gauge. You really need to click on the images to see them properly.
Shotgun 1.JPG Shtogunsx2.JPG
 
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Hi Icebear,
Beautiful example of art form & function & it goes to a most deserving person that appreciates this kind of quality! All the best!! B/T
 
The Valmet does have provision for the end user to adjust the barrel regulation, and an over/under is easier to regulate than a side-by-side, but I'm hoping I don't have to mess with this.

Hi Icebear,
I wonder if you have has a chance to fire the double rifle to check the barrel regulation?
And I wonder how that filler piece between the rifle barrels is attached ... I guess it cannot be 100% fixed as the barrels can be adjusted one to the other.
 
The barrel filler consists of two C-shaped sheet metal stampings that are held together with a screw at each end. They are held in place by clamping pressure and are not directly attached to the barrels.
 
Hi Icebear!
There are several "Alaskan" Leupold fixed power scopes on E-Bay you may like , hope this helps. All the best!! B/T
 
Hi Icebear!
There are several "Alaskan" Leupold fixed power scopes on E-Bay you may like , hope this helps. All the best!! B/T
Thanks. I have put a 2-7x Leupold on it for the moment. We'll see if I decide to replace it.
 
I finally got the Valmet double out to the range today to zero the scope and check accuracy and barrel regulation. I am very pleased with the results. At 50 yards, both barrels were shooting to almost the same zero, and each barrel was showing excellent accuracy. Some bullet holes were touching. It took several rounds to get it sorted out but now I would feel confident with this as a dangerous game stopper. Ammo was Norma 232 grain hollow points.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I believe this is the first time this rifle has been fired since leaving the factory. I found no powder residue in the barrels, and there were several full boxes and no partial boxes of ammo with the gun.

I put a 2-7x Leupold "shotgun scope" on it for a couple of reasons. One, I already had it. Two, one difference between a regular scope and a shotgun scope is that the parallax is set closer on the shotgun scope (75 yards, I think). Three, the scope has a heavy plex reticle. The short parallax and bold reticle are ideal for a heavy double rifle, whose primary use is on dangerous game at short to medium range. At 2x, it's got a nice wide field to keep track of the beast. At 7x, that's enough power to test accuracy at longer ranges. It has a matte finish, unfortunately since the rifle is high-gloss blue, but it's otherwise ideal. I'd rather keep the heavy plex reticle and short parallax and take the minor cosmetic hit than the other way around. So it stays, unless I find something I like even better.

The Valmet attracted a lot of attention at the range. A lot of the guys had never seen a double rifle before, let alone an over/under. Another attention-grabber was a Swedish Ljungman AG-42B military semiauto. I've had the thing for like 15 years and never gotten around to shooting it. It shot fine, but it takes a while to get used to the unusual setup for cocking and chambering the first round. The Ljungman was one of the first rifles to use the gas-impingement system later adopted by Eugene Stoner for the AR15/M16 rifles. I also took with me the very first rifle I ever owned, a Ruger 10/22 deluxe that I've had since around 1973. Shot it with two flavors of inexpensive ammo, CCI Blazer and Federal Auto Match. Each 10-round magazine produced a big ragged hole in the target. Makes me remember why that gun has been popular for 50 years. I put a new stock on it recently, because the old one was prone to chips at the toe. Ruger has changed the design to improve durability; I may try to repair it one of these days when I get time.

Altogether a very satisfying day at the range. Here's a photo of the double with scope.
Double Rifle w:Leupold.JPG

In case you're interested, this is the Ljungman.
AG42B -1.JPG
 
I was about to click another "like" until I saw the Ljungman.
So what do you have against the Ljungman? It's kind of funny-looking, and the loading and cocking routine takes some practice, but it's a well-designed, accurate rifle and was, in its time, a leader in technology. And it's all blued steel and wood - not a spot of plastic on it!
 
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