1971 .338win L61 mannlicher- should I?

Discussion in 'Sako Mannlichers and Carbines' started by NoplacelikeSOIL, Jan 13, 2021.

  1. NoplacelikeSOIL

    NoplacelikeSOIL Active Member

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    I've found a .338win mannlicher L61r for sale with an old redfield scope attached. It was inherited by the seller and he says he's pretty sure date of manufacture is 1971 and he's pretty sure it's never been shot. Comes with box and factory sale tag attached. Mint condition.


    The seller wants $1900 USD for it. Is this a good price for this rifle? This would be my first Sako! I love the mannlichers.
     

  2. NoplacelikeSOIL

    NoplacelikeSOIL Active Member

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    Also, I just joined the site! So hello! I've loved Sakos for a long time but have never owned one. I lurk this site from time to time for eye candy.
     
  3. paulsonconstruction

    paulsonconstruction Sako-addicted

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    Overpriced by a lot, IMHO. That caliber in a short barreled carbine is a hard sell with a limited market appeal. A collector of Mannlichers looking to fill a caliber niche would be a potential buyer, but that price may even dampen his enthusiasm. If you are looking for a rifle to use & hunt with you can do better with regard to caliber & rifle, as well as price. Believe me shooting a 338 Win Mag from a 20" barrel is not only very unpleasant, but it diminishes any advantage the round offers from an energy & velocity standpoint. Just my two cents. Others may feel differently.
     
  4. NoplacelikeSOIL

    NoplacelikeSOIL Active Member

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    Thanks for the info!

    I was thinking that a 50 year old mannlicher would be worth more than $2k! I see now the other older thread where someone is asking what a .338 mannlicher is worth.

    I will see how flexible the seller is on price. This gun would be mainly just a special gun to hang onto for a long time, but I would hunt with it on special occasion. I certainly won't be jumping on it quickly now!
     
  5. deergoose

    deergoose Sako-addicted

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    If you're looking to put it to use, then the price is too high, as previously stated.

    don't be like me and have non-purchase remorse.....it may be you're on the fence, and if so go ahead and buy the thing. 9 times out of 10, you'll be sorry if you don't. Not that many 338 full stocks around. Just my experience.

    welcome aboard!
    DeerGoose
     
  6. Jeffy1

    Jeffy1 Well-Known Member

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    If this is a 3 lug bolt mannlicher that is a very rare find. And if the box is a good shape and the gun is minty that easily raises the value in my opinion. There was only about 50 of these made. $1,900 is not out in left field. There are few mannlicher collectors out there but if they need one for their collection they wouldn't hesitate to purchase that gun for that price if it is that configuration. As far as shooting it, now that I have to agree with Paulson.
     
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  7. Jeffy1

    Jeffy1 Well-Known Member

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    By the way a 1971 264 mannlicher just sold last month for $2588.
     
  8. NoplacelikeSOIL

    NoplacelikeSOIL Active Member

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    Here are a couple of images. I tried looking up the serial number (if that's what the top right number on the tag is), but it didn't help.

    Box looks like great condition and there is some fiddleback in the wood. The scope looks original too.
     

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  9. bigcountry4me

    bigcountry4me Well-Known Member

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    So unfortunately it’s a much later AV carbine. Still very nice. I’d say later 80’s. I simply don’t value it as high as the seller does. It has an older Redfield scope and Sako Optilock bases and rings. In my opinion for the money you could buy a more versatile caliber in an older version with a higher degree of collectibility. However, as some have said it’s not totally crazy money- but it’s probably off about $400-500 in my opinion.
     
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  10. NoplacelikeSOIL

    NoplacelikeSOIL Active Member

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    I went and looked at it and it's actually an AV. But the tag and box say L61r? I thought that was an action type that ended in the 70s.

    It was in perfect condition. Not a mark. Borescoped it and it looked like it hadn't been shot. The scope is a redfield 4plex. Box and tags were in perfect condition too. The guy even still had his receipt in the box... I think. It wasn't itemized. The date on that was 1998 and $600 for one item and $60 for another. Could that be the scope and rings? Or the gun and scope? I can't imagine that scope costing 600 or 60 in 1998.

    He said he'd sell it for $1800. Considering it's condition, I don't know if I could bring myself to shoot it
     
  11. paulsonconstruction

    paulsonconstruction Sako-addicted

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    The AV stamping is to indicate it has the longer tang & the bolt shroud, but otherwise it is the same action as the L61R, which is how Sako referred to them internally, even though they are stamped AV. That is why the box is so marked. Once again the seller doesn't even know what he is selling, but thinks he knows what it is worth. If he bought it new in 1998 it sat somewhere for 10 years or more. If you like it & want it, buy it! Just be aware it's value is not going to keep up with inflation or make a difference in your retirement. If you can't bring yourself to shoot it, then it's like sticking $1800 in a safe & not being able to enjoy it. Caveat Emptor!
     
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  12. bigcountry4me

    bigcountry4me Well-Known Member

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    I’d speculate $600 for the carbine and $60 for the base and ring set. The Optilock system was new and available. The scope was perhaps owned then installed. l61R continued as the nomenclature but the models changed with various improvements. That is, AIII and AV. I still maintain the price is higher than the actual value. If you buy it, there’s no reason not to shoot it, although it won’t be much fun. The AV’s are not collectible unless it’s a unique deluxe or a rare caliber. It’s obviously your decision but the consensus in my opinion would be to bargain it lower or hold off. Hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2021
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  13. NoplacelikeSOIL

    NoplacelikeSOIL Active Member

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    Good points. Thanks! I haven't ever wanted to collect guns for resale value... only for enjoyment. My asking about value is really just wanting to make sure I know what I'm spending relative to it's market value.

    Even if I bought it knowing I overpaid, I would still have a hard time shooting it! I just like having "pretty" guns haha. I have an old 1980s Remington 1100 that I grew up hunting deer with that is in fantastic shape. I haven't shot it in years. But I love pulling it out and oiling it.

    I'll have to think on this one!
     
  14. NoplacelikeSOIL

    NoplacelikeSOIL Active Member

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    So I guess the late 80s/early 90s estimate would be from the last line in this picture of the manufacture dates list on sakos website? It is an l61r line and the change noted was "two part trigger guard".
     

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  15. paulsonconstruction

    paulsonconstruction Sako-addicted

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    Probably! Sako didn't build rifles in sequential order so it's hard to be definitive using a serial number only. Did you look through the box or find any other papers or hang tag? Could be an inspection date somewhere. There is evidence of Sakos with consecutive SN's be shipped years apart & Sako's with SN's thousands apart being shipped on the same day. Late 80's early 90's is probably a very good guess. If it has two crossbolts in the stock instead of one it was made after the switch to the Tikka trigger, which occurred around 1990.
     
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  16. NoplacelikeSOIL

    NoplacelikeSOIL Active Member

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    I see! Very interesting.

    In his box was the receipt with the 1998 date, but not itemized as being a gun. Just "hunting supplies". I'm guessing it was the gun.

    I don't remember seeing any dates in the manual that was in the bag still attached to the gun. I looked through it quickly and it does have a trigger at least similar to a Tikka ... One that is adjustable by the screw in the same spot but also had another adjustment screw that I think might have been for overtravel, but the manual used a different term.

    It had two cross bolts.

    It had Stoeger stamped into the barrel as the importer.

    The scope I'm pretty sure was from the 70s.. a redfield widefield 4x. I looked that up last night. Some vintage scope seller out if Montana is selling NIB widefields for $500?? That's nuts. I wonder how many they sell. On eBay there's a couple for about $150.

    It is at least very fun playing gun sleuth!
     
  17. paulsonconstruction

    paulsonconstruction Sako-addicted

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    If it has two crossbolts & the Tikka trigger it is probably from 1990 or 91. In 1992 the AV was replaced by the L691 action. Evidently the seller bought it NIB in 1998, so somebody sat on it for a while. Overtravel is also referred to as "Backlash", but Sako may have used a different term, as well. The used vintage scopes sold in Montana have been completely refurbished to bring them back to factory new condition internally. This includes glass, reticle, purging & filling with nitrogen, & installing new seals. It's my understanding the NIB Vintage scopes they sell are checked to insure their seals are good & they are filled with nitrogen. The $150 one on eBay may or may not work when you need it to. Quite a few people appreciate the older fixed power scopes & many like to match the scope to the period the older rifles are from, so evidently they sell enough of these scopes to maintain a viable business. Better than buying a scope from Asia, IMHO!
     
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  18. NoplacelikeSOIL

    NoplacelikeSOIL Active Member

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    I didn't know they do such extensive refurbishment and testing; I think that certainly justifies the price. My assumption was that they're just old and haven't been used. And yes... Definitely better than one from Asia if it works!

    I did however find this one that sold and they're stating it was made between '85-'89 and it has the double cross bolt. https://lsbauctions.com/5826/sako-m...-action-rifle-in-factory-box-mfd-1985-89-nib/
     
  19. paulsonconstruction

    paulsonconstruction Sako-addicted

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    They are using data from the Sako "Numbering & changes" sheet that is available on-line, trying to interpolate a date wrongly assuming Sako made rifles in sequential order then gave a 4 year range in which they "think" it was made. Who cares when exactly it was made? We do know that it is a late model AV(probably after 1985) based on it's physical features & not unlike thousands of other AV's made in that time period. I don't recall for sure, but the 375 H&H may have had the extra crossbolt before the Tikka trigger, but it doesn't matter one way or the other nor does it affect it's value. Trying to exactly date Sakos is like chasing ghosts. We can usually guess to within a couple years with confidence, but most sellers have no clue when a Sako they have was made nor do they even know what they are selling for certain, most of the time. You will be better served to peruse this forum & educate yourself about Sakos than looking at for sale ads. There will always be Sakos for sale, but knowing what you are actually buying will more likely make your purchase one you won't regret.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
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  20. icebear

    icebear Sako-addicted

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    Following up on Paulson's post, information found in For Sale ads is worth exactly what you paid for it. Maybe it's correct, maybe it isn't. Sakos in particular seem to generate a lot of incorrect information, probably because people don't actually know very much about them. A few months ago I bought an L46 built in 1951, one of Sako's very first .222's. The ad listed it as an L61R. The seller told me that the dealer who sold it to him had told him that was the model number, and he quite frankly admitted that it was his first and only Sako and he knew nothing about them. I've seen ads for Sakos described as in "like new original" condition, when they obviously had custom stocks. Caveat emptor, and caveat lector.
     

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