6mm PPC factory loads

Discussion in 'Tips and Tricks for gunsmithing your own Sako' started by colt45sa, Jan 3, 2017.

  1. colt45sa

    colt45sa Active Member

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    I've read an awful lot about 6mm PPC, recently reading a thread which stated that the really competative shooters shoot rather light bullets in the 60gr to 64gr area. I'm curious as to why Sako might have picked 70gr bullets for their factory loaded cartridges. I owned a Vixen Hunter some time back that shot very well with 68gr Bergers. This current acquisition (not yet shot) is a heavy barrelled single shot. I'm wondering what bullet I should try for the greatest accuracy. Should I stay heavy with 70gr or go to the light end near 62gr?
    Can any of you reloaders share your successes with me? Thanx~!

     

  2. paulsonconstruction

    paulsonconstruction Sako-addicted

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    I believe the Sako 6PPC's had a 1 in 14 twist, so bullets heavier than 75 grains may show stability problems. It was designed as a benchrest round, so following those shooter's choice isn't a bad idea. The Sako is chambered for the 6mmPPC-USA which has a slightly different neck diameter that the original 6mmPPC & doesn't require neck turning of the brass. No one can predict what bullet/load your rifle will prefer. You''ll just have to shoot it & find out.
     
  3. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    Sako Factory ammunition shoots just fine in my Sako 6PPC, but I like to use 55 grain Noslers. Their inexpensive conventional SHOTS bullet, the tipped Varmageddon, and the boattailed Ballistic Tip all shoot very accurately in my gun. With the light 55 grain bullet you can get "varminting" velocities above 3400 fps, whereas the 70+ grain bullets move at a velocity more suitable for targets.
     
  4. colt45sa

    colt45sa Active Member

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    I know all about the 6mm PPC vs. the 6mm PPC USA and their differences. Certainly SAKO's version of the 6 was introduced well after the 6 became so popular, and I think that the decision to produce it with a standard neck chamber vs. the tight neck was great. However, after observing the many 'top shooters' loading 60-62grain bullets, why would they pick a 70 grain bullet to offer in their factory loads. It makes me think that the throat in the SAKO must be longer to accommodate the larger bullet thus causing the lighter bullet to have to make a bigger jump into the rifling and thus decreasing the accuracy potential. What am I missing? This target was shot with the Vixen Hunter I so stupidly sold. img003.jpg
     
  5. colt45sa

    colt45sa Active Member

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    Doesn't anyone have any thoughts about bullet weights in a Sako 6mm PPC????
     
  6. Foxhunter223

    Foxhunter223 Well-Known Member

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    I have a Sako S491 in 6mm PPC fitted with a 1 in 14 twist Shilen barrel. I only use our own projectiles and have used 62gn gn but mostly use 67gn projectiles. I have shot it in a few comps but mostly use it for rabbit and fox shooting.
     
  7. colt45sa

    colt45sa Active Member

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    How long is the throat in that Shilen barrel? In other words I'm asking how long a 'jump' does the bullet have to make before it engages the rifling? Wouldn't the factory throat designed for a 70 gr bullet be much longer than the throat designed for a 62 grain bullet? Doesn't 'free bore' have a serious bearing on accuracy? Some of the benchrest people want their bullets jammed
     
  8. Foxhunter223

    Foxhunter223 Well-Known Member

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    Colt45sa,
    My projectiles are seated so they are 5 thou into the lands and can do this easily with both the 62 and 67 gn projectiles. I found this to be the most accurate in this rifle. The throat is very short and I will have to ask the owner of the reamer the specs if he still has them, but this reamer is for bench rest rifles. The reamer owner and his son are both using Borden made BR rifles in competition here in Australia.

    I cannot comment on the factory 6mm PPC throat as this rifle was made from an action purchased new and then the rifle built around it. I do know that the throat in my L461 223 was so deep I could not seat a 55gn projectile in the case and get it to touch the lands at all. The rifle club I am a member of is a bench rest club so this is why my rifles are set up in a BR fashion as I used to take my rabbit rifle and shoot the occasional comp.

    I am not a dedicated BR shooter but I am sure that all the BR shooters in my club do not jump projectiles to the lands in centre fire BR. So does freebore make it less accurate ??? To be honest I am not sure. Or to look at it another way, does seating to the lands make it more accurate ?? In my case yes and is with my other Sako's it has shown to be the more accurate. But this could also just be a mind thing with me.

    If you want to see our projectiles we have put up a small web presence just so people could contact Ian when they needed some projectiles. The URL for our projectiles is: http://ispprojectiles.angelfire.com/index.htm
    It has been quite awhile since I have updated the web page and I had forgotten that we did put up some targets from early comps we shot it. The targets are from when Ian was using his old Remmy 700 BR rifle which he has since sold and replaced with his Borden. You will also see a couple of my early groups using the S491.

    I know I have not answered all your questions but this is a start and I would like to find out how to post photo's on this forum. I can post them on every other forum I am on but this one seems to be a bit different.

    Pete
     
  9. colt45sa

    colt45sa Active Member

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    I am beginning to see some logic here (if logic applies). I'm thinking that I'm going to have to play with 'seating depths' before I start tweeking 1/4 grain powder increments to see where I need to go. That assumes that the projectile is long enough to engage the case adequately when the projectile touches the lands. As the bullet is moved out towards the lands, case capacity will change making a change in powder charge necessary. Does this sound logical~? So it's step 1, find the seating depth that's the most accurate then 2, fine tune the powder charge~!
     
  10. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    Posting photos: Simply click on "Upload a File" then select the photo from your computer's storage.
     
  11. Foxhunter223

    Foxhunter223 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Colt,
    Here is a link to a very good article which you may find helpful. I have read it several times, it is getting old now but I still think it is relevant data.
    http://www.angelfire.com/ma3/max357/houston.html

    I cannot find the article I want to send to you at the moment about load development. Basically it is load development by starting off with your projectile seated back a few thou from the lands. Then load 3 rounds each of a starting load and work up your load by .3 of a grain till you find the most accurate load. Then with this load you vary your seating depth in or out till you find the optimum seating depth. I am not a ballistician by any means so take this with a grain of salt if you like. But I would not be concerned about varying the powder charge because you have seated your projectile a few thou either way. The chap who owns the 6mm PPC reamer is shooting at a rimfire comp today so I probably speak to him tomorrow.

    Below is a photo of my S491 and it reloading gear.
    S5001969.JPG

    Hope some of this is a help to you, anything else I can answer for you I am only too happy to.

    Pete
     
  12. Foxhunter223

    Foxhunter223 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Stonecreek. That looked to easy which is why I was looking for a more technical way of uploading.

    Pete
     
  13. colt45sa

    colt45sa Active Member

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    That was an amazing article. Even though it is outside the technical and budgetary involvement of my shooting there were a number of tidbits that will certainly be incorporated in my efforts. You certainly gave me a far greater depth of understanding than I had before and led me to an answer to a question that I have asked numerous people before but never got an answer. Thank you~!
     
  14. Foxhunter223

    Foxhunter223 Well-Known Member

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    It was my pleasure to offer any help I could. I spoke to Ian today about the 6mm PPC reamer and he cannot remember all the details but is sure that it is a .269 neck. To be honest I new that much :) but he says he will try to find the emails that he had with Mr Borden about the reamer.

    Pete
     
  15. colt45sa

    colt45sa Active Member

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    I knew that as well. This is a factory Sako with a 6mm PPC USA neck so I would expect the chamber to have been cut for the standard .269. The dimension I was curious about is the length of the throat or 'free bore'. I think that I have to load so that I am jost off the lands~!
     
  16. Foxhunter223

    Foxhunter223 Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure what a factory neck diameter would be, but will get Ian to look it up the reamer specs for us, then we will both know :) He did say what he thought it was from memory but I will not say what he said as I believe he has not remembered it correctly. Would rather get you correct data first time.

    Pete
     
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  17. colt45sa

    colt45sa Active Member

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    Have you seen this site~? http://singleactions.proboards.com/thread/11487/building-benchrest-rifle?page=2
    I really appreciate what a gentleman you have been and the information you have shared with me. I don't want to post a lot of unrelated information here, but I would love to talk to you about some other subjects. I'm of English decent and have been asked many times about my desire to visit Great Britain. I really don't, but I have fantasized about Australia many times. You have a huge and beautiful continent with every kind of typography anyone might want to see. I would love to see it before it is destroyed by Buffo Toads and Muslims~! God bless~!
     
  18. colt45sa

    colt45sa Active Member

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    You've referred to Ian. Who is he and does he shoot a Sako in 6mm PPC USA~? You failed to mention if your Shilen barreled 6 is chambered for 6 PPC USA.
     
  19. Foxhunter223

    Foxhunter223 Well-Known Member

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    Like just about everyone on this forum we will share what ever knowledge we have and I know that their is plenty on here with lots more experience than I. Having said that I am happy to share what ever I have with you.

    I see that you are in Florida which I am led to believe is sub tropical climate. Where I live in Coffs Harbour NSW is sub tropical so would be similar to what you are used to. I have a couple of friends in the USA, one in MD and the other in CO and both say they are coming down under together to shoot Buffalo and wild pigs. The buffalo we have are Water Buffalo, the feral pigs are just that feral pigs although I have read that sea captains have released wild boar back in the early days of the colony being founded. The Toads have become a serious problem but the scientists are working on solving this pest problem and hopefully one day they will. If you do decide to come to Australia to hunt booking with reputable companies would be the best way to do that. If you booked with the right top end outfit you could shoot Buff, pigs, Banteng, Samba deer and fish for Barramundi.

    As I said happy to give you any information I can.

    Pete
     
  20. Foxhunter223

    Foxhunter223 Well-Known Member

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    Ian is my shooting friend, we hunt and shoot together all the time and have done so for over 30 years. Ian does not use a Sako in 6mm PPC. For target competition his rifle is a custom built Borden Rimrock action switch barrel in 6mm PPC with LB and HB configuration plus he has a 22 PPC short barrel for it. Ian has many rifles but his favourite rifle for field shooting is a 1948 Brno in .22 Hornet.

    My Sako S491 is chambered with the same reamer Ian has used in his Borden target rifle. So it has a match chamber the same as Ian's Bench Rest rifle not a 6 PPC USA chamber. I was fortunate in getting two hundred Sako 220 Russian cases and use them exclusively. The Sako cases are not neck turned and fit perfectly in the .269 neck. Although I am thinking about skimming the necks just to remove and high spots that might be there. The S491 has been fitted with a Jard trigger system which is an improvement over the Sako trigger.

    Pete
     

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