Four sizes in Sako Actions?

Discussion in 'General Sako Discussions' started by Reg, Nov 30, 2021.

  1. Reg

    Reg Member

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    Four sizes in Sako Actions? So what size did they use for the 458? Also the 500 Jefferies must be the forth then?

     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2021

  2. P04R

    P04R Well-Known Member

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    Which generation? I'm not sure if Sako ever chambered 458 Win Mag, but it should fit in any action the 375 H&H does, so L61R/AIII/AV and AIV, or L691, or 75/V, or 85/L
     
  3. paulsonconstruction

    paulsonconstruction Sako-addicted

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    Only the Model 75 & 85 have 4 action sizes. The "extra size" or 4th one is for the "short magnum" rounds that entered the market about 30 years ago. They could have easily used the medium action, but decided to tweak the medium action slightly to improve feeding reliability of those short fat cases. The differences between the medium & short magnum actions are difficult to detect with the naked eye. As a side note, Sako pre-production advertising indicated they were going to make a 5th size(size II) for the Model 75, specific to the PPC cases. Obviously, they didn't but the decision came so late that the action size stampings go from I to III on the 75 to this day. The PPC rounds were built on the III instead.
    Edit: I forgot that Sako added action sizes to the 85 model, so they now have 6 action sizes. The XS(extra small), SM(short magnum) & the XL(extra large) in addition to the traditional 3 sizes of short, medium, & long.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2021
  4. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    I would toss in the "P" actions for rimfires as yet another "action size", the P46 & P54; plus the P72, P75, P78 (all nearly identical and also used for the Hornet); followed by the P94/P04 and the latest version (which I don't know how it differs), the action used for the Finnfire II.

    I've always felt that the P94 adapted to the 5.7 FN would make a marvelous little varminter much superior to the hot-shot .17 rimfires.

    One more note: I think that the long action Model 75 (and maybe the M85, also) came with two different magazine lengths. One about 3.6" for standard cartridges with cases up to about 2.85", and a longer magazine for the Remington Ultramag chamberings.
     
  5. ricksengines

    ricksengines Sako-addicted

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    You know what would be really cool would be if we had a post of the different receivers starting with the L46 and working up from there. Putting a ruler next to each of the receivers when the pictures are taken would be very helpful. If we do this, let's not get ahead of ourselves.

    There are probably two or more versions of the L46. Once we have them documented we can move on to the L461 and so on.

    My suggestion is to take a picture of each receiver coupled with the bottom metal showing the overall length and distance between the screw holes.

    What say yee campers?

    rick
     
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  6. tilleyman

    tilleyman Well-Known Member

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    Yep currently 6 action sizes for the 85 model...
    Sako 85 action sizes.JPG

    Sako 85 action sizes calibres.JPG
     
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  7. Reg

    Reg Member

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  8. icebear

    icebear Sako-addicted

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    At least two, and I believe three. The L46 action was tweaked for the .222 Magnum by opening up the bottom slightly and moving the bolt stop back to make room for the longer round. The mag and bottom metal are adjusted accordingly, but the basic action is the same and the distance between screws is the same. Sako officially referred to the magnum action as L469, but many were marked L46.

    I have read that the same was done in 1951 to adapt the L46 to the .222 Remington. The action, which had previously been chambered in 7x33, .22 Hornet, and .218 Bee, wasn't long enough for the .222 and went through the same process, opening up the bottom of the action, changing the bolt stop, etc.
     
  9. tilleyman

    tilleyman Well-Known Member

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    @icebear same as the L461, I had one chambered for .222 Rem Mag, (completely shot out barrel) that I rebarrelled to 6x45mm.
    The bolt stop and feed ramp are subtly different to my A1 .222 Rem so a 6x45mm round tried in the A1 magazine doesn't feed as well as the L461.
    Not sure if a A1 in .223 Rem is different and will feed a 6x45mm better?
     
  10. Wayne

    Wayne Well-Known Member

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    Reg and PO4R, In Sako`s words ``1979/80 .458 Win Mag has been produced on special order.`` I believe that most of them that arrived
    in the United States were barreled actions in the little Blue and White
    boxes. They had L61R actions. Wayne
     
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  11. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    Ummm . . . depending on what you class as a "version" there may be a dozen or more variations in the L46 action.

    The "original" was a short magazine (7x33 and later .22 H, .218 B, .25-20, and a very small handful in .32-20). This one had a LH wing safety.

    The next was the same as above, but with the RH rolling safety.

    Then came the "stretched" magazine adapted to the .222 Rem -- and it was found with both types of safeties. This version was also chambered in four of the original shorter cartridges using an internal magazine block to shorten it. Whether you think of these as separate versions would be up to whoever is doing the classifying.

    The RH rolling safety went through a number of changes. Some had no screw head on the LH side, others had one screw head, and still others had two. Some were checkered on top, others smooth, and some had the word "Sako" engraved on them. There may be several more variations in how the bolt/safety was configured. I know that our president, L61R (Jim), has done some extensive research on these variations.

    Then there is the L469, "stretched" to accommodate the .222 Magnum. Whether you count those marked "L46" and those marked "L469" as different "versions" would again be up to the classifier.

    Not different actions necessarily, but there was originally the birch-stocked carbine-style rifle with barrel band (some plain, some checkered only on the pistol grip, and others checkered both PG and fore end.) Then the sporter with walnut and no Monte Carlo; around 1957 the walnut version got a Monte Carlo. Toss in the Mannlicher (both 20" and 23.6") and the HB plus the Deluxe.

    You can see that the combination of actions, safeties, magazines, barrels, calibers, and stocks makes the number of L46 variations a Malthusian-type multiplication that probably puts the number of unique combinations in the many hundreds. But I guess that's one thing that makes Sakos so interesting.
     
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  12. icebear

    icebear Sako-addicted

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    And if you want to go to that level of detail, some weren't marked with the model number at all, just "Sako Riihimäki" like all but the very last standard-length L46 rifles.

    I think that when Rick posed the original question, he was referring to the basic action length and what cartridges it was made to accommodate, not variations like safety configuration and markings. Certainly there are plenty of Sako variations to talk about, both well-known and obscure.
     
  13. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    IIRC, it seems that all, or virtually all, of the L46's had the little imprinted stamp recessed into the front dovetail with the "L46" mark on it. Maybe someone can come up with an example that doesn't have this -- or maybe the rusting interconnections in my cerebral cortex are just malfunctioning again.
     
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  14. icebear

    icebear Sako-addicted

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    Only the very early L46's were so marked. The recess in the front dovetail went away about the same time as the wing safety. I'll take and post a photo later - I thought I had one but it's not in my computer file.
     
  15. misako50

    misako50 Sako-addicted

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    And what about the L42?
     
  16. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    I'm not sure there ever really was an "L42", except for prototypes of the L46 produced in 1942. Anecdotes indicate that Sako made about a half-dozen or so prototypes of their miniature centerfire action in 1942 then suspended work on it until after WWII. The production version was released in 1946 and dubbed the "L46". The pre-production actions from 1942 are often referred to as "L42", but, except for possible minor changes made for purposes of commercial production, they were identical to the production model.

    I've posted a link to the first page of the L46 inspection records. Serial numbers 1-6 are recorded without a date of inspection and it is believed that these are the prototypes from 1942 -- but that is only conjecture, although it comports with the often-cited reference to a half-dozen prototype "L42's" having been made in 1942.

    A member of our Club, who has since passed away, owned what he believed to be one of those "L42" pre-production rifles in 7x33 and wrote an article on it for Rifle magazine. After he found that his condition was terminal he stated that he "might just have them put this one in the box with me". I'll see if I can find the article and post it for everyone's enjoyment.
     

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  17. icebear

    icebear Sako-addicted

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    Here's the promised photo of a mid-50's L46 without the circular logo on the front bridge.
    L46 Action 1.JPG
     
  18. paulsonconstruction

    paulsonconstruction Sako-addicted

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    None of the L46's I have owned or personally handled have had the circular L46 logo on the front bridge. I have even worked on L46's with 4 digit serial numbers that did not as well, so it's my feeling that that stamping is fairly rare. None of the L46's I have owned or personally handled have had any model stamping on the left side of the receiver either. Base on my experience my feeling is that the vast majority of the L46 Models were not stamped with the action designation, which lead to them erroneously be called a "Riihimaki" model. Just my two cents. Others may differ.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2021
  19. Old Hippie

    Old Hippie Formerly known as bloorooster

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    I always associated the Circle 46 dovetail stamp with the earliest wing safety and barrel banded rifles..don’t think I’ve ever seen a L46 marking anywhere else on mine either. My earliest is numbered 47xx , wing safety type has the circle.
    The earlier L46’s had two different sized ejection ports , tho the action over all length is the same. My Hornet numbered 66xx has a shorter bolt throw.
    Almost 5 cent worth now! :p
    Bloo
     
  20. temozon

    temozon Well-Known Member

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    I have 4 left wing safety L46's of which 3 have the later version left wing safety (in 218 Bee, 22 Hornet, & 222), and all 3 have the "Circle L46" on the front dove tail. Of course my very early 7X33 (with barrel band & arctic birch stock w/ no checkering) has the Circle L46.
     

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