New S20

Discussion in 'Show us your Sako' started by Tracy Redpath, Jun 11, 2021.

  1. Tracy Redpath

    Tracy Redpath Active Member

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    Here is my new S20 in 6.5 Creedmore. Some will POO-POO it because of Synthetic stock. But I like it and thats what matters. Should be pretty accurate. IMG_2220.JPG

     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
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  2. Uglybear

    Uglybear Member

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    Looks good. What scope do you have on it?
     
  3. Old Hippie

    Old Hippie Well-Known Member

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    I like it!
    The stock design shows points of adjustability which gives an upper edge to accuracy in connection to shooter form and head position. Pistol style grips can be iffy for me personally as some are too short /too long for my liking , but that’s just me.
    As a hunting rifle, to me, it’s the carry weight. But I’m old and don’t like humping 10 lb rifles up and down the mountains all season.
    The 6.5 Creed is super pop right now, tho I dunno if it’s any better than some of the standards of old.
    I’d love to see a range report on this one!
    Congratulations on a nice rifle
    Old Hippie
     
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  4. Bernie’s Dad

    Bernie’s Dad Well-Known Member

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    Looks cool.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  5. Tracy Redpath

    Tracy Redpath Active Member

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    6.5 X 20 X 50mm
     
  6. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    It looks like it was built for some "purpose". What purpose do you intend to put it to?
     
  7. icebear

    icebear Sako-addicted

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    The 6.5 Creedmoor was designed as a long-distance target round, and for that purpose, and for long-range hunting (pronghorns, etc.), it's superb. For hunting at more normal distances, it offers no advantage over 6.5 Swedish or 260 Remington.
     
  8. Bernie’s Dad

    Bernie’s Dad Well-Known Member

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    I hear it resists wind drift very well. Especially the 143 grain bullets.


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  9. paulsonconstruction

    paulsonconstruction Sako-addicted

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    No bullet can "resist" wind drift. It's a fact of life. How much a bullet drifts is more about time of flight than anything else. Nothing magical, no matter what is claimed in the gun rags, about any bullet. It's just simple physics. Once I "know" what the wind drift is under the shooting conditions that exist I don't care "how much" it is. I just adjust accordingly.
     
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  10. Bernie’s Dad

    Bernie’s Dad Well-Known Member

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    Ok. Thanks. So my 7 Rem Mag will drift less because it gets out there quicker. Good to know.


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  11. stonecreek

    stonecreek SCC Secretary Forum Owner SCC Board Member

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    Wind "drift" (how fast and how far a bullet is pushed laterally from its initial vector) is just like trajectory: It depends on the sectional density and velocity of the bullet. However, wind, unlike gravity, is not constant, nor does it pull or push in just one direction. This is why wind is a much more difficult influence on the bullet's flight path to anticipate than gravity -- particularly over longer distances since wind can change over distance and gravity doesn't.

    Bullets with lower sectional density and velocity "drift" more than bullets with higher sectional density and velocity. There is nothing magic about the case or chamber from which the bullet is imparted its velocity. To say that a ".299 Whackspacker" drifts less than a ".299 Barfspitter" without specifying the bullet and the velocity is silly. If both shoot an identical .299" bullet at the same velocity of 3,000 fps then both with have the same drift and trajectory (assuming both have a rifling twist which adequately stabilizes the bullet.)

    It is possible that the ".299 Whackspacker" is commonly loaded with a 190 grain FMJ with a very sharp spitzer point and a ballistic coefficient of .650 at a velocity of 3,000 fps (allowed by its SAAMI standard pressure of 65,000 psi). On the other hand the ".299 Barfspitter" is commonly loaded with a 130 grain round nose at 2,500 fps in order to fit in short action lever guns and has a SAMMI psi limit of 48,000 psi. The "Whackspacker's" bullets will certainly drift less (and have a flatter trajectory) than the "Barfspitter", but if you reverse the loadings then the "Barfspitter" comes out ahead.

    So yes, your 7mm Rem Mag will drift less than a 6.5 Creedmoor, provided you give it enough velocity with the right bullet. It will also kick more, burn more powder, be louder, and heat the barrel faster, so it is less well-adapted to putting multiple holes close together though paper targets, whereas the 6.5 Creedmoor is less well-adapted to taking an elk off of a mountainside 400 yards away with a single shot.

    Bottom line: There is nothing special in a name or in minor dimension variations in a chamber. Given the same bullet at the same velocity from identical barrels there will be zero difference in the drift (or trajectory) of a .260 Rem, 6.5 Swede, 6.5 x 54, .256 Rigby, or 6.5 Creedmoor. Just because the Johnny-come-lately Creedmoor is normally loaded with a bullet and to a velocity which "drifts" less than the sometimes lighter, blunter, and/or slower bullets of the others isn't due to its cartridge shape, much less its name.
     
  12. bigcountry4me

    bigcountry4me Well-Known Member

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    There’s more to the equation than getting there quicker. My suggestion would be to download a quality ballistic application. The scenarios are endless. Creating a firing solution at long range is matter of fully understanding your specific load (velocity, BC, etc.) and all of the circumstances relative to your specific shot scenario. It’s actually extremely satisfying especially when you begin to realize success as the data provides long range hits.
     
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  13. paulsonconstruction

    paulsonconstruction Sako-addicted

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    It's not quite that simple. Bullet weight & it's ballistic coefficient, along with velocity, affect time of flight. A heavier bullet with a higher ballistic coefficient may start out slower but because it retains velocity better than a lighter bullet that started out faster, it will "overtake" the lighter bullet somewhere down range. So, wind drift is not a constant. Like stonecreek & bigcountry4me have stated, it gets
    "complicated". Google Fr. Frog's "A Short Course in External Ballistics" (Well, ok. Maybe not so short) to get the best explanation of bullet flight, but you will need at least a high school level of Physics & some math skills. Just some of his basic rules are:
    1: There ain't no magic bullets (although some are better than others).
    2: Divide the range at which someone claims to have shot their deer by 4 to get the real range.
    3: Always get as close as possible.
    4: Don't believe manufacturer's claims.
    5: Velocity erodes, mass doesn't.
    6: In the battle between velocity & accuracy, accuracy always wins.
    7: Inconsequential increments are meaningless.
    8: Most gun writers are pathological liars.
    He blows apart all the myths floating around out there about rifle ballistics & I feel it is a must read for any shooter. He is not a "gun writer", but a professional who worked in the ballistic analysis & ordnance field.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
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  14. Old Hippie

    Old Hippie Well-Known Member

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    I want a De Lux .299 Barfspitter in a mannlicher stock, with a rosewood schnitzel and grip cap!
    I do like the longer flight times because it gives me more time to drink!
    Do they offer the Fr. Frogs writings in a audio book?

    Hippay
     
  15. Bernie’s Dad

    Bernie’s Dad Well-Known Member

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    I think I’ll just limit my shots to 200 yards. It is called “hunting” after all not “shooting.”


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  16. Old Hippie

    Old Hippie Well-Known Member

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    Ok..in all honesty.
    I have a problem with some long distance “shooters” and the Creed-more Syndrome.

    Everyone wanted one, just had to have one! One by one, they got one or even two! And they all had to have threaded barrels so they could all buy cans. They all went thru great measure to find a place that’s was long enough and flat enough to reach their 1000 yard dreams. They hung gongs and reactive targets. Tennerite became ridiculously popular at the same time, with huge kudos to R Lee Ermy for his “Hoorah!” Influence in that aspect...
    Before long the guys were gathering every weekend shooting hundreds of rounds down range, just for the occasional bang!......ting!...yay!
    Ok fine, they had it going on, but it wasn’t enough.
    One fellow I worked with had a cell phone video of a whitetail doe that was feeding next to one of the gongs he’d figured out how to hit, to him it was a huge opportunity to make a kill! And he did! Awesome! My next question to him was how long did it take him to recover his deer at a quarter mile away. His answer disgusted me more than anything for he said he didn’t even try to recover the deer, “there are plenty of them out there, and now with the carrion that is left behind attracts coyotes to shoot at too!”

    If we can kill out to 1000 yds without the ethics and responsibilities to harvest what we kill then we are only helping to destroy everything we have worked towards since the 19th century.
    Bang your gongs all you want, but unless you observe and respect Mother Nature and her gifts to us for food and nourishment, along with the reasonable ethics of a true hunter or outdoorsman, your only helping the animal rights activist and anti hunting church of state.
    Two cents at a higher rate...

    old Hippie
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2021
  17. paulsonconstruction

    paulsonconstruction Sako-addicted

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    Bad, unethical behavior is prevalent throughout our society today. Your point is???? I thought we were discussing the S20 Sako, it's purpose & how wind drift affected long range bullets used in that type rifle. BTW, it's spelled Creedmoor & it's not listed as a "syndrome" as far as I know. Lighten up & ignore the A-holes. Life's too short. :)
     
  18. Old Hippie

    Old Hippie Well-Known Member

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    G-wiz Mr Paulson. Didn’t mean to dump on your informative ballistic breakdown of things or to sidetrack your superior intellect on the S20 and the Creedmoor popularity trend.
    A-holes are born every day. Thanks for the spellcheck.
    hippie
     
  19. bigcountry4me

    bigcountry4me Well-Known Member

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    Respect your perspective and your passion. I am glad you qualified your problem with “some long distance shooters”. I’d hate to be lumped in with your previous co-worker. Douche-baggery in today’s world and climate takes on many forms. Your example is one which deserved a serious bitch slapping, (although I’m not in favor of violence) or at least the highest degree of public shaming. Hopefully you did your part. (laughing)

    Long range shooting is not for everyone, I understand - and get it. Personally I don’t care for trap shooting. (but good for those who enjoy it) I prefer sporting clays. And for those of you shooting in the north woods with short handy, open sighted rifles/carbines, nothing but respect….(laughing again)

    I’m lucky to have 1000-1200yd capability within 20 minutes of the house. And, I can choose any practical scenario or angle I wish, along with ever changing wind elements. I consider this method as a huge and ever changing challenge. This aspect of shooting will test your discipline,your breathing, your senses, and your equipment. This discipline will test your physical limits especially if you hike from location to location, shooting in different body positions, and of course it will test you mentally.

    This experience is one I use (sometimes with competitive friends) in preparation for real world hunting, although my own distance regarding big game is typically not beyond 600 yds. This is how I know my equipment intimately and can confidently take longer shots if presented - provided my own ethics meter is within range.

    Long range shooting is just one of the dozens of different shooting disciplines. Maybe long range is not for everyone, but WE shouldn’t inadvertently and potentially stereotype because of one person’s bad decision and choices of ethics.
     
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  20. FLT

    FLT Well-Known Member

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    A man has to know his limitations,;) mine is about 300 yards. But some of the younger guys that I shoot with are 1000 yard capable. They rarely shoot game at such distances, but I have no doubt of their ability to do so.
     
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