Pricing of Finnbear rifles?

[thefinn]

Hey everyone!
I just found this forum and as I was impressed of the quality of discussions here I decided to join and ask if someone of you had some piece of advice for me.
Alright, I'm considering buying myself a Sako rifle for hunting and found a couple of L61R Finnbear and one Sako AIII in the web. I mean, I haven't seen them yet because it's pretty far to the seller but the seller claimed by email that they are all in pretty good condition. The prices are as following:
Finnbear cal 30.06 with a scope that looks pretty new: 650 € (which makes about 940 $)
Finnbear cal 30.06 with a older scope 550 € = 790 $
Sako AIII cal 30.06 with a decent looking scope 550 € = 790 $.
I'm from Finland and these prices look pretty low for me, compered with the usual market prices. Now I'm wondering what you think about these rifles, are there anything I should pay extra attension to when visiting the shop? I would personally think it's a good offer, of course I'll ask to testfire the one I eventually choose. And I'm also wondering about the AIII-marking, is it a action or a "real" model of Sako rifles?
Thanks in advance!
PS: if someone want to see some pics I can upload later.

 

[Anonymous]

Hei Suomalainen,
Tervetuloa! So, at first the Finnbear L61R in .30-06 should be a good all-around cartridge for hunting in Finland. I think the AIII is almost the same, but a newer version of the L61R. When considering the price of a used gun, the scope and mounts don't mean much to the overall price. If you like one particular rifle but not the scope, ask if they will sell it without. This works for me, but sometimes the shops are selling for other people and they want to sell the whole thing. The prices you are saying is what I would expect to pay at a gun show here in the states for just the plain Finnbear in good condition. For example, I bought a Finnbear Deluxe in .30-06 in very good condition at a gun show last summer for $800 USD. I guess you would know the obvious things to look for - cracked stock, rust on bolt, action, or barrel. Also that the bore is shiny and bright. If there are open sights that the hood is on the front sight, as this item disappears fast. If the scope suits you, consider it's quality and if there are marks from hard use on it. I don't think a shop would sell one with a cracked lens but test firing is a good idea all around.
A couple pictures would always be nice to see. be sure to use a lower pixel setting like 640x480 so it can be seen and downloaded without a problem to the server.
I hope this will help you.
Terveiset,
S-A

 

[scottbitterman]

wow sa a deluxe for under 1000 can hardley find standard grades here for under a 1000.I did just pass on a Nice 243 with peep and a very nice piece of wood for 950.
same show had a 3 digit 264 win mag nice wood but some blueing issues in my mind and a 30-06 fo 1100 ther were a few others but those were the three best of the bunch.One dealer is sitting on a A-1 223 for all but two years that I know of and has not moved on price.
scott

 

[Anonymous]

Scott,
It was in Nashville while I was on a trip to see my daughter. The guy didn't know what he had. I saw the floor plate in the middle of a bunch of guns on a rack and knew right away what it was. I tried my best not to look too interested. Just scanning the rack. I pulled it out and checked the bore and all the usual stuff. 5 digit serial, 3-lug bolt. I offered him $750, but he wouldn't take it. I just smiled and broke out the cash. You never know what you will find.
S-A

 

[stonecreek]

TheFinn: Welcome to the site!

There is no way to tell from your description which of the three guns might be the best buy. Simply inspect each gun for the usual things. The A-III is fully the equal of the L61R, it is simply a later designation.

I can say that the prices sound reasonable, and the caliber is as good as exists for a world-wide medium-to-large game caliber. My son prefers his Sako .30-06 to any other Sako we own and has taken everything from coyotes on the plains of Texas, to elk in the Rocky Mountains, to kudu and oryx in Africa with it.

There could be a huge difference in the values of the scopes. If you can list the brands and magnifications of the scopes we might be able to help you with their values.

Happy Hunting!

 

[thefinn]

Kiitos,
and thank you for all answers. I would gladly post a list of the scopes, but I haven't any info about them myself yet. The seller is right now in Thailand on vaccation so I guess I have to wait a week or two before calling him... =)
But what I do have is some pics of the rifles which I downloaded from his site. They are not very good but maybe you can be able to regognize something interesting from them. Let's see how the pics line up, I put them in order Finnbear 550 €, Finnbear 650 € and AIII 550 €. You can see that they have been used in hunting and have some scratches, but as I intend to use them for same purpose it's not a big deal. Of course I like nice woods, but also that it shoots right. And then I'd really like a real Sako instead of some new Remington or other brands...

 

[stonecreek]

The photos help!

The first rifle is a later L61R with a Tasco scope in mounts I am not familiar with. The scope is a throw-away if you are serious about hunting. The pad appears to be a replacement.

The second rifle is an older L61R. You can tell from the shape of the magazine release that it is from the initial configuration beginning in 1961. This type release was used up until around 1964. This one looks like a very nice gun. I can't identify the scope, but it appears to have a lighted reticle. The mounts are original Sako ringmounts. This one is definately worth the extra E100.

The third rifle is a typical A-III with its higher stock comb. It appears to have an older Redfield 4X scope, which is a very useful scope (although more modern scopes have a bit better optics.) I can't identify the mounts. Nothing wrong with this one for a hunting rifle just as it is.

While the photos don't really allow you to assess condition, if all are in approximately the same condition, I would rate them (at the given prices) in order of desirability: Second gun, third gun, first gun.

Good luck!

 

[Anonymous]

Suomalainen,
Thanks for the pictures. Most here would probably say they don't help too much but it gives a better idea, anyway. I would first say to inspect the rifles for the items in the posts mentioned above. If it were me and I saw these rifles on the rack, I would gravitate to the second Finnbear and look at that first.. I think the checkering is better and the open sights appear to be of a better design. The scope also appears to be illuminated and of a newer age. I like illuminated scopes when an animal goes into the "shadow" so I can see the reticle better. This could also be one reason for a higher price. You may check them to see if they are a 2-lug, or 3-lug bolt. That will help date them a little for you as the 3-lug bolts were replaced by 2-lug bolts starting in 1972 when Garcia got involved with Sako. As for the AIII, it is just not to my taste.
The butt plates look to be of equal quality, but check to see if they seem hard or brittle. If you set it in your safe or gun closet on that pad, it will crush over time. best if stored flat.
I have an L61R Finnbear Deluxe in .30-06 with the three lug bolt and I think it is safe to say that here in the US, buyers "in the know" would most likely gor for the 3-lug bolt over a 2 (on an older Sako L61R), although there is thought to be no difference in function or reliability. In other words, here, 2-lugs are harder to sell in this period of rifle or don't sell for as much as a 3-lug. I am waiting for a L61R Finnbear Deluxe in .375 H&H which I just purchased and somehow I feel better with a 3rd lug on that. It's just me.
So, if all things check out, Finnbear #2 would be the one I looked at first based on the pictures you submitted. This is just my opinion. I also don't thnk the prices are outrageous for any of them. You can always ask for the "Alennus" or make an offer.
S-A

 

[Anonymous]

Suomalainen,
Stonecreek is right on the money. I didn't notice the magazine plate release. If that one is in good shape, take the test shot!
S-A

 

[thefinn]

Thanks for the answers. It seems that the second is the one for me, if it's in good condition. One thing I though was wondering over; I guess you rate the value of a model mainly depending on age and condition, and the higher age of rifle #2 is also giving it a higher value? (Without counting in the newer scope). How is it then (in common) with the accuracy of the older rifles, is it usually equal with a newer rifle, say a 20 year newer Finnbear? And even this is a Sako forum, can you say something about the accuracy compered with a Tikka, eg. M65? I would say they should be in the same class, but have you had any other experiencies?
And speaking about alennus = offers I will certainly ask for a student discount.. =)

 

[stonecreek]

Any of the three rifles are as likely as another to provide good accuracy. Of course, individual rifles vary and one could have a problem that is unknown.

The second rifle comes from an era when quality, in terms of detail and fitting at least, was generally believed to be a bit better. Therefore, if the condition of the three rifles is essentially equal, the second one would be slightly preferred.

It is important to inspect the interior of the bores to see that they are not worn or have been corroded. The external condition is easily judged once you can see the rifles in person, but the internal condition of the bores is likely more important to how they will perform. Actually, unless a bore has been stored with moisture in it or cleaned improperly with some corrosive chemical, most hunting rifles don't see enough service to wear the bore appreciably. I know people who are frequent hunters and only own one centerfire hunting rifle, but will only shoot an average of a half-dozen shots through it per year. In 30 years the gun will have been fired less than 200 times, which is nothing for a .30-06.

 

[Deleted member 14372]

I paid $900 for my 1972 FinnBear 3006. It is in good (not excellent) condition. You should know these are heavy rifles. Mine weighs 10 pounds with a 13 ounce scope and old sako rings. I like the rifle but it isn’t light.


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[wombat]

I have one of these later L61R, an A111 s/n 535xxx, yes they are heavier, mine with a scope is 9lb 8oz.........But when you use shooting sticks they are dead steady to hold on target and this give you a big advantage if its a longer shot.
Over. Here in the Colonies one of these will set you back on average $1600.00 - $1900.00 Australian Dollars, some examples even more!!?
If the Rifle has been well maintained, with a good bore and non crushed recoil pad, you will not regret buying one.
Jay

 

[icebear]

Why are we replying to a thread from January 2010? I imagine the OP has decided which rifle to purchase by this time.