Bigfoot: Sako P57R

[stonecreek]

Who says there is nothing new under the sun?

While researching the records on another subject I happened across the usual set of rimfires, P54's I assumed, in the factory shipping records. But something funny caught my eye. The handwriting is often difficult to interpret in these old records, but these weren't P54's, but rather P57's. P57R, to be precise. "R" usually denotes "raskas", or "heavy barrel".

There were 569 of these made (568 were marked as shipped) -- and all but one were shipped to the same person or company. They were all made/shipped between May and December of 1957.

The ship-to person or company appears to be simply the name of an individual. I'll let those that are better at interpreting handwriting than me make a stab at the name listed in the scan of the records in the link below.

Since no Sako rimfires prior to the P72 were commercially imported to the U.S., our European members will have to help us out with this puzzle. Has anyone ever come across a heavy barreled Sako rimfire labelled "P57"? I have to wonder if it had some special configuration or special sights that made it different from the P54 -- and I have to assume that it was probably a variation on the P54 since that rifle continued in production until replaced by the P72. And was it made to the custom specifications of the only person/company to receive all but one of the entire lot?

Information and comments appreciated.

 

[stonecreek]

Hey, I just searched our own forums and found a single thread on the P57R. It is from 2012 and even though I had commented on it I had completely forgotten about it (damn this old age!) Still not much information, but it does appear to be a variation of the P54.

 

[icebear]

Actually, there are two threads. The second link has photos.
https://sakocollectors.com/forum/threads/sako-p57r-22lr.6851/#post-30454
https://sakocollectors.com/forum/threads/sako-riihimaki-p-57r-22lr.6845/#post-30448

I agree with the conclusion in these two threads that the P57R was an early version of the P54T heavy-barrel target rifle. Hyytinen lists the design year of the P54T as 1958, so the sequence fits. Stonecreek's new information suggests that Sako may have made a special run of heavy-barrel rifles for a particular distributor or dealer and then decided to put it into production. I'm not familiar enough with cursive Finnish to make out the full name of the customer, but the last name is something like Markkanen.

 

[stonecreek]

Thanks for locating those photos from 2012.

Never having seen a heavy barrel P54 I don't know for certain, but I don't think the earlier ones had the "beavertail" fore end like the P57R shown in the photos. That distinctive Sako beavertail came along around 1957, I think, in the L46 HB, continued in the L57, and continues for decades on the Sako HB configurations. Perhaps the P57R was the first to have such a beavertailed stock?

 

[icebear]

Perhaps the P57R was the first to have such a beavertailed stock?

If, as you say, the L46 heavy barrel made its debut around 1957, the two would be contemporary. A photo in Arma Fennica of the P54T, introduced in 1958, shows a beavertail forend. Confusingly, the P57R preceded the P54T. If any heavy barrel P54's were made before 1957, they are not mentioned in Arma Fennica. That's not definitive, the book has many errors and omissions, but as far as I know it's the best information available.

 

[L61R]

“That's not definitive, the book has many errors and omissions, but as far as I know it's the best information available.”

Right on! A lot of good info for sure but also errors and omissions as you say Icebear.

My best guesstimate is that Sako called them P57R inhouse but for some reason never went on with launching that moniker in public.

I have never ever seen that designation stamped on any reciever or used in any printed material.

Here are two pics (from AB Calic who was the Swedish importer from early 50’s in to the 70’s) from my collection website: www.sakoparaphernalia.com

Haven’t updated my site in years and will most likely rebuild that site in the future.

Jim

 

[L61R]

The pics I added to my former post comes from a large binder type of catalgue intended for gunshops and retailers and such. I will see if I can find that binder and check to see if there is any date.

And two more pics!

 

[Paul Red Rock]

Who says there is nothing new under the sun?

While researching the records on another subject I happened across the usual set of rimfires, P54's I assumed, in the factory shipping records. But something funny caught my eye. The handwriting is often difficult to interpret in these old records, but these weren't P54's, but rather P57's. P57R, to be precise. "R" usually denotes "raskas", or "heavy barrel".

There were 569 of these made (568 were marked as shipped) -- and all but one were shipped to the same person or company. They were all made/shipped between May and December of 1957.

The ship-to person or company appears to be simply the name of an individual. I'll let those that are better at interpreting handwriting than me make a stab at the name listed in the scan of the records in the link below.

Since no Sako rimfires prior to the P72 were commercially imported to the U.S., our European members will have to help us out with this puzzle. Has anyone ever come across a heavy barreled Sako rimfire labelled "P57"? I have to wonder if it had some special configuration or special sights that made it different from the P54 -- and I have to assume that it was probably a variation on the P54 since that rifle continued in production until replaced by the P72. And was it made to the custom specifications of the only person/company to receive all but one of the entire lot?

Information and comments appreciated.

We recently acquired a P57R version of the P54. The serial number looks like it could be in the range of this sale that you mention, but I would like to verify it if possible. Could you possibly post the scans of the rest of the sale? It seems that this page only has the first 152 rifles of the sale.

Also, I looked at the scan and it seems that the buyer was T:mi J. Markkanen. The abbreviation T:mi means toiminimi which is tradename. So most likely it was some individual businessman who had made the order.

I have been doing some research about who this buyer could be and so far my only guesstimate is that they have something to do with the olympic medal shooter Väinö Johannes Markkanen. He was active during those years and seems to have been pretty passionate about target shooting.

I'll post some pictures of the one we have. Sorry that the quality of pictures isn't great.

 

[stonecreek]

Can you do a comparison and let us know in what ways it may vary from the P54?

 

[bloorooster]

Below are photos of a P54 T? (no T stamped anywhere)
In comparison to Paul’s photos I see that they are very close in serialization and ,best I can tell , are otherwise identical. No Diopter front sight, Sako simply milled the standard ramp lower to accommodate the heavier barrel (.997”)

I have not done a record search for this one yet but is most likely from the same period.
I’m also noticing that compared photos available on this forum indicate that these models are found with BOTH a round top or grooved top. (So then there’s that too)

 

[HelSako]

P57r is marked to the barrel, if there is any difference it must be in barrell. sako made experimental groove test at that time? Picture inside barrell would help

 

[bloorooster]

Here is a shot of the crown..it has 12 lands and grooves. Earlier P46 and 54 Sporters were 6 grooves

 

[stonecreek]

From the limited number of photos I've seen, the mysterious P57 seems to be marked P54 on the receiver and P57 on the heavy barrel. It will be interesting to find if the barrel interiors are somehow different.

 

[Paul Red Rock]

From the limited number of photos I've seen, the mysterious P57 seems to be marked P54 on the receiver and P57 on the heavy barrel. It will be interesting to find if the barrel interiors are somehow different.

I will post some more pictures tomorrow when I get to it. I have a P54 and an Ilves that I can compare it to as well and I'll try and focus on any differences that I notice.

I could be mistaken but I feel like the barrel was even thicker on this one than the other P54 heavy barrel I've seen.

 

[stonecreek]

Is it possible that the difference is in the sights they were equipped with?

 

[bloorooster]

Is it possible that the difference is in the sights they were equipped with?

While some are equipped with traditional ball-rests and hooked butt plates..the model I had (my sons now) did not have those attributes.
Seems that all of the HB models that are equipped with front diopter sights are also equipped with ball-rests or at least still have the threaded bushing in the forearm. There have been a couple Ive seen with a peep rear sight, a rear ramp sight and front blade sight…
The triggers are the same as used on the Sporter of the same period..which is odd. A two stage system with limited range of adjustment. Not what I expected to find on a target rifle.

 

[Paul Red Rock]

I took some pictures compared to a standard P54 we had, but sadly the other HB model we have is so heavily modified that I'm unsure what on it is still original.

I don't know if the length of the barrel on the standard is shorter than on the P54T model, but it is a bit longer at least on this P57R.

Sights looked similar to the one bloorooster posted. Also it seems that it may have 16 grooves in the rifling if I counted them correctly.

 

[HelSako]

Thanks for the pictures, it is big difference between standart 6 and 16 grooves, so maybe sako was keen on feedback from field use and named them p57 as easier followup?

 

[Paul Red Rock]

Thanks for the pictures, it is big difference between standart 6 and 16 grooves, so maybe sako was keen on feedback from field use and named them p57 as easier followup?

From what I have learned perusing through these forums, the P54T didn't make its debut until 1958. But according to the records shared by stonecreek the first P57Rs were sold in April of 1957, and all but one went to the same buyer, the one man business of T:mi J. Markkanen.

You are probably right about them wanting to be able to follow-up more easily on them.

So I'm guessing that the P57Rs were a special/custom order as some sort of prototype or practice run to see how well they would fare, or maybe they made them to test out their new micro rifling technology, before doing it on the bigger rifles.

If the P57R is the first rifle of Sako to have the micro rifling, perhaps the R stands for Rihlattu (rifled) instead of Raskas (heavy). I have some old gunsmith contacts I could try asking.

 

[bloorooster]

16 grooves!!
I never counted them I just assumed it was 12 as Sako did many Bofors 12 groove barrels. I will ask my son when he gets back home from Vegas (Pro Dart Tournament).