New to site, but not new to Sako

[Kodiak Kid]

Have some questions about my L61R's If anyone can help answer them it would be much appreciated. My Finnbears are older than I am. I'm 43. They were given to me by my father. The serial numbers are 506718 on my 30-06, and 57789. Are these pre Garcia Rifles? I dont know much about Pre Garcia Sakos. Second question what are they probably worth? (Not that I would even consider selling either of them) Just curious. I've taken the original Wood stocks off both rifles and replaced them with Synthetic Mcmillian's. I of course kept the original stocks. My dad had redfield optics mounted on both rifles when new as well. A fixed 4 power widefield with redfield mounts and rings on the 06, and a 2×7 widefield with Sako mounts and rings on the .338. I didn't like how either of the two scopes performed. When I swapped stocks I also swapped glass. Mounted tried, tested, and true I must say, Louie's on them. A 3.5×10 VX3 with 40mm objective and B&C reticle on the 06 and a 1.5×5 VX3 on the .338 I'm much happier with the durability of the Leupold glass and how the Rifles shoot .vs the Redfields. Only the glass was changed the rings and mounts stayed the same. So, does anyone know how old these rifles are and what are they probably worth? The 06 is in very good condition and the the .338 in excellent. But make no mistake they have spent hundreds of hours in the field. If not thousands as far as the 06 is concerned. They are not family heirloom wall hangers that collect dust. They are used tools. Very well taken care of used tools that have taken every species of medium and big game on Kodiak Island where I live and was raised Infact, between my father and I I'm positive the 06 has put more than a 100 Sitka black tails in the freezer and on the plate. Just love my Finnbears...

 

[paulsonconstruction]

Sako initiated a serial numbering change in 1974 starting with 500001, so rifle #506718 was made after that & after Gracia became importer. It should have an importer's stamp on it somewhere, unless it was brought back to the US by an individual, possibly someone in the military stationed in Europe. Rifle #57789 is likely from the late 1960's or early 70's & may or may not have the importer's stamp required by the 1968 Gun Control Act. The importer would have been Firearms International at that time. Unfortunately, the Factory Records the club has end with #48900 for the L61R, so neither rifle can be researched. Their value is as shooters & would vary depending on a host of factors impossible to determine over the internet, sight unseen. BTW, to learn more about the Gracia & pre-Gracia "misunderstanding" check out the threads here on the subject.

 

[Kodiak Kid]

Have some questions about my L61R's If anyone can help answer them it would be much appreciated. My Finnbears are older than I am. I'm 43. They were given to me by my father. The serial numbers are 506718 on my 30-06, and 57789. Are these pre Garcia Rifles? I dont know much about Pre Garcia Sakos. Second question what are they probably worth? (Not that I would even consider selling either of them) Just curious. I've taken the original Wood stocks off both rifles and replaced them with Synthetic Mcmillian's. I of course kept the original stocks. My dad had redfield optics mounted on both rifles when new as well. A fixed 4 power widefield with redfield mounts and rings on the 06, and a 2×7 widefield with Sako mounts and rings on the .338. I didn't like how either of the two scopes performed. When I swapped stocks I also swapped glass. Mounted tried, tested, and true I must say, Louie's on them. A 3.5×10 VX3 with 40mm objective and B&C reticle on the 06 and a 1.5×5 VX3 on the .338 I'm much happier with the durability of the Leupold glass and how the Rifles shoot .vs the Redfields. Only the glass was changed the rings and mounts stayed the same. So, does anyone know how old these rifles are and what are they probably worth? The 06 is in very good condition and the the .338 in excellent. But make no mistake they have spent hundreds of hours in the field. If not thousands as far as the 06 is concerned. They are not family heirloom wall hangers that collect dust. They are used tools. Very well taken care of used tools that have taken every species of medium and big game on Kodiak Island where I live and was raised Infact, between my father and I I'm positive the 06 has put more than a 100 Sitka black tails in the freezer and on the plate. Just love my Finnbears...

Thanks. That makes sense. What does the importer stamp look like? Is this it Behind the serial numbers? This is the. 338

 

[Kodiak Kid]

This is the 06

 

[Kodiak Kid]

My Father didn't tell me much about their history other than Pre 74 something or another. He may have just been talking about the .338. He did say as long as I took care of them they should hold their value. Only god knows I've tried. Dosen't really matter because I'll never sell either of them. But can anyone give me a ball park estimate on the pair including both Factory and Mcmillian stocks and Optics and optic mounts. I gotta be looking at at least 4K right? Heck! Just the Mcmillian stocks were 350 a piece... That was almost 15 years ago...

 

[paulsonconstruction]

The importer stamp is more like it's printed on in a whiteish/grayish ink & is on the underside of the barrel. The lions head next to the SN is the proof mark & the initials RA are the inspectors. The importer's mark, if they ever had one, may have been removed if your father ever had them reblued or they may be under the stock's forearm. If your 338 is early enough to have the third "safety" lug, you will see it at the rear of the bolt on the bottom just forward of the bolt handle. It fits in a notch in the receiver behind the magazine when the action is closed. It is rectangular in shape. You are about double in your estimate of value. 30-06 shooters are quite common and can be purchased in the $600 to $800 range depending on condition. Your 338 would have more value in Alaska than in the lower 48 & would probably bring a slight premium, say 15 to 20%, especially if it has the "third" lug. Your used McMillan stocks could bring what you paid 15 years ago, depending on the buyer. Your guns are not collector type. Even if they were, $2000 each would be a huge stretch, IMHO, as mint condition Deluxe models have been selling for under $1500 in my area. Others may differ. If you want the history & more detailed info on your rifles, it's all right here. Just click on the forum section on Sako Long Actions and peruse the threads.

 

[stonecreek]

What it would cost to duplicate them might very well be in the $2,000 range each if you include the second stocks, mounts, and optics. The market, however, doesn't value additions very highly on used guns, so they might bring half of what they cost to assemble -- however, local pricing conditions vary so they could bring more. Their value to you is in their use as shooters and in the family history they represent. That is worth many times their value on the market.

The .338 is from the early 1970's and the .30-06 from the mid-1970's. The best guns are always older than their owners.

 

[Kodiak Kid]

The importer stamp is more like it's printed on in a whiteish/grayish ink & is on the underside of the barrel. The lions head next to the SN is the proof mark & the initials RA are the inspectors. The importer's mark, if they ever had one, may have been removed if your father ever had them reblued or they may be under the stock's forearm. If your 338 is early enough to have the third "safety" lug, you will see it at the rear of the bolt on the bottom just forward of the bolt handle. It fits in a notch in the receiver behind the magazine when the action is closed. It is rectangular in shape. You are about double in your estimate of value. 30-06 shooters are quite common and can be purchased in the $600 to $800 range depending on condition. Your 338 would have more value in Alaska than in the lower 48 & would probably bring a slight premium, say 15 to 20%, especially if it has the "third" lug. Your used McMillan stocks could bring what you paid 15 years ago, depending on the buyer. Your guns are not collector type. Even if they were, $2000 each would be a huge stretch, IMHO, as mint condition Deluxe models have been selling for under $1500 in my area. Others may differ. If you want the history & more detailed info on your rifles, it's all right here. Just click on the forum section on Sako Long Actions and peruse the threads.

Roger that, good info, but what about the glass. They are 500 dollar optics average price new. Seems to me aftermarket Custom highy quality stocks, good not high but good quality glass, Sakos Finnbears in great condition... Hmmmmm? I just can't see them being less than 1500 a piece. Now just the bare factory rifles is another story. I'm sure you know more about than me so I'll take your word for it. Like I said before Dosen't really matter because I'll never sell, but thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it. Please just one more question. Dose rebluing or refinishing the stock on a rifle if done by a creditable professional depreciate gun value? I've heard both sides. Thoughts?

 

[Kodiak Kid]

And thank you for the Info on the third locking lug. I didn't know that. My friends Sako in .338 Lapua has three separate lugs on the extractor end of the bolt but his is a much more modern Sako. I thought that's what a triple locking lug bolt was. Thanks again...

 

[Kodiak Kid]

What it would cost to duplicate them might very well be in the $2,000 range each if you include the second stocks, mounts, and optics. The market, however, doesn't value additions very highly on used guns, so they might bring half of what they cost to assemble -- however, local pricing conditions vary so they could bring more. Their value to you is in their use as shooters and in the family history they represent. That is worth many times their value on the market.

The .338 is from the early 1970's and the .30-06 from the mid-1970's. The best guns are always older than their owners.

Well put! thankyou...

 

[paulsonconstruction]

Roger that, good info, but what about the glass. They are 500 dollar optics average price new. Seems to me aftermarket Custom highy quality stocks, good not high but good quality glass, Sakos Finnbears in great condition... Hmmmmm? I just can't see them being less than 1500 a piece. Now just the bare factory rifles is another story. I'm sure you know more about than me so I'll take your word for it. Like I said before doesn't really matter because I'll never sell, but thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it. Please just one more question. Dose rebluing or refinishing the stock on a rifle if done by a creditable professional depreciate gun value? I've heard both sides. Thoughts?

I never consider glass when evaluating a rifle, so my estimate may be low, for the "package". One can buy used Leupy glass similar to yours for around $350-$400 on ebay about anytime. If a rifle is offered to me with a scope, I generally request it be removed unless it is the one I would use anyway, or offer much less than the scope is worth. You will get more for the scopes if they are not on the rifle in most cases.

 

[Kodiak Kid]

The importer stamp is more like it's printed on in a whiteish/grayish ink & is on the underside of the barrel. The lions head next to the SN is the proof mark & the initials RA are the inspectors. The importer's mark, if they ever had one, may have been removed if your father ever had them reblued or they may be under the stock's forearm. If your 338 is early enough to have the third "safety" lug, you will see it at the rear of the bolt on the bottom just forward of the bolt handle. It fits in a notch in the receiver behind the magazine when the action is closed. It is rectangular in shape. You are about double in your estimate of value. 30-06 shooters are quite common and can be purchased in the $600 to $800 range depending on condition. Your 338 would have more value in Alaska than in the lower 48 & would probably bring a slight premium, say 15 to 20%, especially if it has the "third" lug. Your used McMillan stocks could bring what you paid 15 years ago, depending on the buyer. Your guns are not collector type. Even if they were, $2000 each would be a huge stretch, IMHO, as mint condition Deluxe models have been selling for under $1500 in my area. Others may differ. If you want the history & more detailed info on your rifles, it's all right here. Just click on the forum section on Sako Long Actions and peruse the threads.

Ok, the .338 dose have the third locking lug. Totally obvious because the 06 dosen't. The bolt off the .338 rifle also has a three digit number etched into the underside of the bolt handle. Two things I've never noticed. Always thought both bolt were the same. I mean I know they are not interchangeable but you get my drift. Great info Thanks again for your time...

 

[Kodiak Kid]

I never consider glass when evaluating a rifle, so my estimate may be low, for the "package". One can buy used Leupy glass similar to yours for around $350-$400 on ebay about anytime. If a rifle is offered to me with a scope, I generally request it be removed unless it is the one I would use anyway, or offer much less than the scope is worth. You will get more for the scopes if they are not on the rifle in most cases.

Wow! good info I didn't know that either. But what about rebluing or stock refinishing? Depreciate or Appreciate value?

 

[bigcountry4me]

Wow! good info I didn't know that either. But what about rebluing or stock refinishing? Depreciate or Appreciate value?

Unfortunately, In almost all cases re-blue will diminish value. Anytime originality is lost it takes away a percentage of value, depending on several factors. Same goes for several other potential changes or supposed upgrades.

In your case for instance, if your .30-06 is valued at $600.00 and you spend $250.00 having it re-blued, the rifle is simply not going to be valued at $850.00. In my opinion the wear on your rifle is like a time stamp, and probably has all kinds of memories.

The only time re-blue pencils out is in high grade firearms. For instance, a high grade Parker shotgun, or a high grade turn of the century Winchester rifle. But even then originality has been altered, but a $250.00 investment in a $3500.00 firearm may keep the value on par depending on the firearm and the market.

Obviously there are exceptions to my example, but it mostly holds true.

Take care. Welcome to the forum.

 

[Kodiak Kid]

Unfortunately, In almost all cases re-blue will diminish value. Anytime originality is lost it takes away a percentage of value, depending on several factors. Same goes for several other potential changes or supposed upgrades.

In your case for instance, if your .30-06 is valued at $600.00 and you spend $250.00 having it re-blued, the rifle is simply not going to be valued at $850.00. In my opinion the wear on your rifle is like a time stamp, and probably has all kinds of memories.

The only time re-blue pencils out is in high grade firearms. For instance, a high grade Parker shotgun, or a high grade turn of the century Winchester rifle. But even then originality has been altered, but a $250.00 investment in a $3500.00 firearm may keep the value on par depending on the firearm and the market.

Obviously there are exceptions to my example, but it mostly holds true.

Take care. Welcome to the forum.

Awesome! Great Info guys! Thanks again to all of you. Sounds like both metal and wood finishes on my Rifles with stay original then. The .338 is emaculate anyway but as hard As I try to keep both firearms clean and sexy, the ol 06 is starting to showing some age. But the seasons and harsh Alaskan Costal environment definitely haven't taken her bloom. She's still as pretty as ever! Talk to you guys later. Its open for Blacktails right now so I believe I'll go try to make a stalk...

 

[paulsonconstruction]

Wow! good info I didn't know that either. But what about rebluing or stock refinishing? Depreciate or Appreciate value?

I disagree with Sean on this one. If a rifle is shooter grade rather than collector grade & the bluing is worn & it shows signs of rust pitting & the stock is dinged & dented & the finish is worn off in spots, how does rebluing & refinishing diminish value???? Seems to me it would be worth more. It's obvious, that a collector grade rifle in nice condition is not one that should be redone, but the "reduced" value analogy doesn't apply to shooter grade rifles, IMHO. Shooter rifles are NOT collector rifles & the same rules do NOT apply with regard to alterations or refinishing. In fact, even a collector gun, in bad shape, that is very rare can be refinished(if professionally & skillfully done) and actually have it's value enhanced. If you feel the need to "spruce up" either of your rifles the effect on their value would be irrelevant. Neither of your rifles is going to make a difference in your retirement, so just enjoy the fact that the were handed down to you from your father, that they are great rifles, you can enjoy using them, & quit worrying about "what they are worth". Seems to me you would want to keep them in good shape rather than let them deteriorate just for the sake of some abstract idea of "maintaining their value". In fact, I'd take them out of those ugly McMillan stocks if they were mine & use the original stocks. It's just no fun to hunt with an ugly rifle. Just my two cents. Other opinions may vary.

 

[paulsonconstruction]

Ok, the .338 dose have the third locking lug. Totally obvious because the 06 dosen't. The bolt off the .338 rifle also has a three digit number etched into the underside of the bolt handle. Two things I've never noticed. Always thought both bolt were the same. I mean I know they are not interchangeable but you get my drift. Great info Thanks again for your time...

The etching on the bolt is the last three digits of the serial number on the action. It's placed there after the chamber has been reamed to the proper headspace with THAT bolt. That bolt stays with the barreled action through the rest of production process. Both bolts are NOT the same. Your 30-06 bolt has the .473" bolt face diameter, while your 338 has the larger magnum bolt face diameter.

 

[bigcountry4me]

I disagree with Sean on this one. If a rifle is shooter grade rather than collector grade & the bluing is worn & it shows signs of rust pitting & the stock is dinged & dented & the finish is worn off in spots, how does rebluing & refinishing diminish value???? Seems to me it would be worth more. It's obvious, that a collector grade rifle in nice condition is not one that should be redone, but the "reduced" value analogy doesn't apply to shooter grade rifles, IMHO. Shooter rifles are NOT collector rifles & the same rules do NOT apply with regard to alterations or refinishing. In fact, even a collector gun, in bad shape, that is very rare can be refinished(if professionally & skillfully done) and actually have it's value enhanced. If you feel the need to "spruce up" either of your rifles the effect on their value would be irrelevant. Neither of your rifles is going to make a difference in your retirement, so just enjoy the fact that the were handed down to you from your father, that they are great rifles, you can enjoy using them, & quit worrying about "what they are worth". Seems to me you would want to keep them in good shape rather than let them deteriorate just for the sake of some abstract idea of "maintaining their value". In fact, I'd take them out of those ugly McMillan stocks if they were mine & use the original stocks. It's just no fun to hunt with an ugly rifle. Just my two cents. Other opinions may vary.

I disagree with Sean on this one. If a rifle is shooter grade rather than collector grade & the bluing is worn & it shows signs of rust pitting & the stock is dinged & dented & the finish is worn off in spots, how does rebluing & refinishing diminish value???? Seems to me it would be worth more. It's obvious, that a collector grade rifle in nice condition is not one that should be redone, but the "reduced" value analogy doesn't apply to shooter grade rifles, IMHO. Shooter rifles are NOT collector rifles & the same rules do NOT apply with regard to alterations or refinishing. In fact, even a collector gun, in bad shape, that is very rare can be refinished(if professionally & skillfully done) and actually have it's value enhanced. If you feel the need to "spruce up" either of your rifles the effect on their value would be irrelevant. Neither of your rifles is going to make a difference in your retirement, so just enjoy the fact that the were handed down to you from your father, that they are great rifles, you can enjoy using them, & quit worrying about "what they are worth". Seems to me you would want to keep them in good shape rather than let them deteriorate just for the sake of some abstract idea of "maintaining their value". In fact, I'd take them out of those ugly McMillan stocks if they were mine & use the original stocks. It's just no fun to hunt with an ugly rifle. Just my two cents. Other opinions may vary.

Obviously I respect and value your opinion. I believe we actually agree on this more than we disagree. My analysis was meant to to in the most general of terms.

Yes, if someone wants to invest in a re-blue for the Sake of giving a personal rifle an upgrade then yes of course, it would not diminish value, because value-is not being weighed and not important.

However, to my larger point, to spend $250 on a re-blue, then attempt to recover that cost in a sale - overall value is diminished by the loss in the sale, because the value won’t rise $250 because it’s been re-blued.

I’ve seen value diminished in re- blue just because it’s not good work as well.. If they’d have just left well enough alone. I’d rather have an original with some blue loss, rather than crappy work

I realize the rifle is NOT for sale but the value question was being asked.

You’ve helped make my second point, collector firearms are in a different category as you’ve pointed out. An example: I bought an 1895 saddle ring carbine, completely original but worn. I paid $1025. I spent $275 for an amazing rust blue. I sold that same saddle ring for $2250. Obviously re-blue was disclosed. Money well spent I bet you’d agree.

You say tomato, I say tomatoe....take care.

 

[stonecreek]

Now that the question of rebluing and its relationship to value has been raised, I'm going to momentarily hijack this thread and ask a tangentally related question: I picked up this late military Luger at an estate sale a short time back for a fairly nominal price. It is a military byf (Mauser) 42 which is mechanically in excellent condition, but the finish, as you can see, is terrible. My question is, is it more valuable with a quality reblue (and replacing the butt-ugly grips), or is it better left alone? It has only one non-matching serial number on the take-down button and the magazine is correct for this "Black Widow" model.

 

[bigcountry4me]

Now that the question of rebluing and its relationship to value has been raised, I'm going to momentarily hijack this thread and ask a tangentally related question: I picked up this late military Luger at an estate sale a short time back for a fairly nominal price. It is a military byf (Mauser) 42 which is mechanically in excellent condition, but the finish, as you can see, is terrible. My question is, is it more valuable with a quality reblue (and replacing the butt-ugly grips), or is it better left alone? It has only one non-matching serial number on the take-down button and the magazine is correct for this "Black Widow" model.

View attachment 16985

Qualifier- I am not a Luger expert. I hear this is a fickle market kind of akin to 1911’s.

Ask five questions:
1. What is the current value?
2. What is the value at 90%?
3. What is the cost of restoration?
4. Is there a market for restored Lugers?
5. Does the cost to restore and the restored market make it plausible to go down this road?

It has become very acceptable to properly restore highly sought after fine arms, and pieces of Americana. There is most definitely a market for certain brands. Winchester, Browning, Colt, Parker to name a few. Tidy profits can be had. Obviously, honesty about any such restoration is a must. Folks simply in some cases will buy restored items because they have become completely unavailable or they’re in museums. We all know too well there are a lot of characters out there who are not honest. Thanks for the post.