A-II in 7.62x39?

[stonecreek]

And a Mannlicher, to boot? https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...-x-39-carbine-full-stock.cfm?gun_id=101082922

This one showed up today with a very ambitious asking price. The non-standard markings on the barrel give me pause, as does the "mark-over" of the serial number on the box. What does "the community" think?

 

[ricksengines]

Here is another earlier thread. AII in same caliber but different config.

rick

https://sakocollectors.com/forum/threads/sako-aii-7-62x39.8258/

 

[ricksengines]

I found another reference to one that Sako produced in the following thread.....

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.guns/1TTSqJ0u8Ao

rick

 

[ricksengines]

Apparently Sako did produce AII rifles in 7.62x39. From the post about 100 were produced and the one selling on GI is priced in the sweet spot for one of these very rare rifles.

rick

 

[paulsonconstruction]

I had "Max" grossly misrepresent the condition of a L46 Varmint a few years back that I purchased, but I do think this one is legit. I do, however, feel an asking price of $6500 is speculative. It's one of those rifles that is so rare that finding a comp is difficult & it's selling price could vary widely from sale to sale. I don't see any substantiated market reality about $6500. It's rare, but HOW rare? One could buy two or three Hornets or Bees for that & have a much larger resale market. It could be more or a lot less depending on the circumstances between buyer & seller. I, personally, would not consider paying anywhere near that as it's resale market & future value are big ? marks, IMHO.

 

[douglastwo]

Other than the two in this post, I know of two other 7.62x39 Sakos. Both were in the 1996 Rock Island auction. One is an AII Mannlicher Carbine serial number 354676 in the Sako box and RI listed it as 1 of 2 manufactured. The second one is a L461 Standard Sporter serial number 98448, and RI listed it as one of only a few made. The mannlicher sold for $747 including the buyers premium. The standard sporter sold for $632 including the premium. Not a bad investment I missed! Much like the 7x33 L46 Deluxe I passed on buying in 98 for $940. I made some blunders by not buying when the price was right!

 

[stonecreek]

Here is another earlier thread. AII in same caliber but different config.
rick
https://sakocollectors.com/forum/threads/sako-aii-7-62x39.8258/

The one shown in the earlier thread has the usual circumferential barrel marking that Sako has traditionally used. The one for sale has horizontal barrel markings that don't look anything like "factory". They appear to be hand-stamped. That's my main hang-up on it's possible originality.

Paulson's assessment of the price is pretty much in line with mine. The market is very thin for extremely rare models (even when they are verifiable), so there are no comparables for it.

 

[douglastwo]

Hand stamped and in the wrong location and original Sako equates to oxymoron to me. But I've been know to be wrong about a few Sakoisms. As for the price, price is driven by folks that either don't know or don't care.....or desperate like I found myself last week. When displaying at a gun show, people can like to see examples of factory original boxes that the firearms came in. Since I occasionally display certain 50 to 60 year old rifles, I keep my eyes open for pristine rifle boxes. I found one at auction and thought I'm going to get this box for displaying. Wrong. I dropped out at $230 for a box, an empty box. I didn't even stay to see where it went.

 

[GreyFox]

This discussion has come up before, I have a friend that has one, not the Mannlicher stock, but the 7.62X39. He was stationed in Europe back when rod and gun sold guns, and no one wanted the "commie round".
Not sure how many were "imported to the States" but am sure some came back as part of the GIs household goods. Times have changed, and not for the better!

 

[paulsonconstruction]

I know what you mean about the barrel stamping, but this was a super small run in an oddball caliber & in an action that is one size too big, as well. The serial numbers on the L46 models I have are both machine roll stamped & hand stamped & are a mixed bag with regard to production dates. The SAKO on the barrel, as well as the caliber stamping look remarkably like the barrel stampings on the old "High Power" long actions from the 50's. I don't think the box has been altered. The serial number hasn't been changed, but rather "cleared up", as some Finns seem to make their 4' & 7's a little oddly & they sometimes look like 9's or 1's. Sako did alot of unusual stuff as we all know. The caliber mark on the box appears legit, as none of the other calibers are checked. The other configuration features that are checked all match the rifle. I don't think anyone can be absolutely 100% sure, but the rifle along with the box is fairly good evidence. Maybe the machine stamping was out of order or just too busy that day, so they just did it the "Old" way. The answer my friend, is "blowing in the wind".

 

[topgear]

Both were in the 1996 Rock Island auction.

How nice is that L461

Personally, I don’t see the attraction of a 7.62x39 on an AII sized action but many would. However I’d go nuts over an L461/A1 in 7.62x39. Matching the cartridge size to the action I find attractive.

There was another of these Mannlicher A2 7.62x39 sold on gunbroker a few years back that also had a typed letter from the sako factory with it. From memory it made good money.

An ad below from the old Finn Mark newsletter!

The 7mm08 would be pretty cool too!

 

[stonecreek]

I know what you mean about the barrel stamping, but this was a super small run in an oddball caliber

You make a good point. The fact that the barrel has the Stoeger import mark also is evidence of its originality. And even though it is poorly defined, the Finnish Lion head after the caliber stamping is something that would be difficult for someone to fake on a 0ne-off item. I have to assume that "84" represents the year of manufacture, which would be consistent with an A-II action.

Now all that stands between me and owning an original 7.62x39 is the four thousand or so dollars more than I would personally be willing to pay.

 

[stonecreek]

Personally, I don’t see the attraction of a 7.62x39 on an AII sized action but many would. However I’d go nuts over an L461/A1 in 7.62x39. Matching the cartridge size to the action I find attractive.

Topgear: I heartily agree with you on matching the action to the cartridge. I was lucky enough to stumble onto a 6PPC sporter on an A-I action, which makes a neat package. I also have a 6PPC heavy barrel on a Model 75 medium action -- its fine since the slightly oversized action is overwhelmed by the heavy barrel, fat stock, and big variable scope, anyway.

But my favorite small action rifle is an L46 that I had rebarreled to .300 AAC Blackout. The barrel is 21" and very slender, making a very light and handy rifle of it. I load a 130 grain Hornady Spire point to about 2175 fps. It's a two-hundred yard gun at most, but carries plenty of punch for game up to the size of whitetails. Owning this dandy little rifle has pretty much curbed my desire for a 7.62x39 Sako.

 

[ricksengines]

I'm still salivating over the prospect of getting my mitts on an AII or L461 in 7.62x39. I'd also like a 7/08 and the ever elusive 7x33 and 25-20. They are the stuff that dreams are made of.

rick

 

[stonecreek]

As I said earlier, I really like the .300 Blackout in a small Sako action -- no need for bolt face alteration nor worry about feed rails or feeding; and the magazine holds the full amount. In an L461/A-I that would be six as compared to four with the 7.62x39.

Below is a photo of the .300 B.O. on the left and the 7.62 on the right. There is only about 200 fps difference between them with a 125 to 130 grain bullet, so the .300 B.O. will do everything the 7.62 will and even less !

 

[paulsonconstruction]

Wanted to play with the 300 BO so I bought a bolt action that I'm ashamed to admit to, as it is a total POS. The cartridge , however, is a real gem. 180 & 208 grain bullets @ subsonic velocity (1030 fps) are mousefart quite thru a suppressor & shoot fairly accurately. Plan is to use it for calling coyotes at night. Trying to decide whether to get another "shooter" Sako & convert it or convert one I already have made into a wildcat. The rifle I have starts with a R, but it will soon be thrown to the trash pile where it belongs. It was, however, a cheap way to experiment. I agree, the BO is much better than the AK round, especially since it can go subsonic as well.

 

[stonecreek]

I had considered experimenting with a pedestrian "R" rifle in .300 Blackout just to see how I liked the cartridge, but a proprietary L46 with a no-name barrel came along about that time at an attractive price, so took the plunge and had a part-time but pretty talented gunsmith rebarrel it for me. I was immediately delighted with the way it shot and haven't regretted the decision for a minute.

I have a friend in Denmark who manages the red deer herd on a couple of thousand acres of private forest. He is looking at getting a suppressed .300 Blackout for his culling duties. But he's had to put that on the back burner for a while since he visited me and killed a couple of whitetails and a hog with my Sakos. When he got back to Denmark he found a Sako Deluxe .243 and just had to invest his spare gun cash in it, instead.