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L461 Bolt Guide Removal

Sako Collectors Club Discussion Forum

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club338

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Hi SAKO friends,

I just bought my 3rd SAKO - an L461 Vixen Varmint .223R from the late 70's. It need some cleaning up including a makeover of the the stock. It also needs a new bolt guide stop spring.

I have searched this and other forums but cannot find a working instruction on how to remove the bolt guide from the bolt.

There is not any screws nor any locking pins attaching the bolt guide to the bolt guide spring.

Any hints on how to do disassemble it without damaging the parts would be greatly appreciated. And pictures of it even more so. :)

Thanks in advance!
 
Club- Welcome to the forum. I generally leave the unseen small parts for a gunsmith to play with. Too many chances that the small pins and springs will shoot off and get lost when venturing into "uncharted water". You can clean the bolt up real nicely with a can of compressed air and some good cleaning solvent. No need to risk a big expensive problem.Good luck with the rifle. Maybe someone can post some very good pictures on how to remove it safely but I would make friends with a smith first. Do a search on this .-Misako
 
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Why do you say the bolt guide needs a new spring? If the bolt guide is still on the bolt, the spring is doing its job.

To remove the bolt guide, rotate it so it is not behind the locking lug -the same orientation it would be when the bolt is closed in the action. Slide the guide forward, it should be free of the spring after 8-12mm of travel.
 
Thank you both for your quick answers! :thumb:

The problem is not the bolt guide spring itself, but the spring behind the small bolt guide stop. It is broken, so the guide can slide all the way around the bolt. Sorry for being unprecise about that.

In the mean time I figured out how to remove the guide: I lifted the end (the one pointing towards the bolt backend) a few mm with a small screwdriver and then slid it off by moving it towards the front end.

In other words, as Hootsmon rightly proposed. It was necessary to lift it the few mm in order to get it "over the edge" of the locking spring under the guide.

I will later post a couple of pics showing the parts. It might be a help to others facing the same problem.

Instead of trying to get a new curved, bolt guide stop spring from a SAKO smith (might take months if even possible), I'll now first try to fabricate a new one out of a curved piece of thin spring steel "chopped" from the backside of a poster frame.

I'll let you know how that goes. :)

Thanks again for your help!

BR Tommy
 
My little idea worked as intended. So the bolt is now working as it should again.

I enclosed the pic below in case someone should be interested in seeing how the bolt guide is attached to the bolt:

IMG_1213.jpg
 
Thanks, Tommy- All these contributions help greatly when a Sako brother or sister is in need of help. Please let us know how the spring fabrication goes.-Misako
 
Thanks Misako50! The spring fabrication went well. The bolt is now working as it should again. :)

BR Tommy
 
Hi BR Tommy! I know it is an old post.
As it happens, I may well have the exact same issue... It would be of invaluable help if you could post a photo of the spring you fabricated as I suppose mine was broken, but the smith mounted the gun without it and I don't have a reference to fabricate a new one. How do I know I need one? Well, I am not sure, but my bolt guide certainly rotates freely all around the bolt, which I understand is not supposed not be.
Many thanks in advance!
 
Older L461 bolts will have a guide rod assembly that will freely rotate around the bolt body.
What should NOT occur, is guide rod movement fore and aft when not positioned behind the bolt lugs.

Sooooo.....it would help if you posted some pictures of your actual bolt. Then we could better help.
 
Many thanks Kevinig! The guide rod does rotate around but cannot move fore and aft. I gave it a try and it is impossible to move it forward (when not alined with the bolt lugs). I have tried all possible positions and it will only wiggle a tiny wee bit. Would this mean it is all good to go? I haven't shot my Sako since it came back from the smith and I fear to have the same bolt locked issue again. This smith is well respected in my area but I am not sure he deals with Sakos that much.
I will try and post photos but the bolt looks like a regular Sako AV bolt I would say. All seems fine from the outside.
 
First......I would ask the gunsmith EXACTLY what he did to fix your bolt.

The AV bolt should have two guide rod collars, and anti over-rotation "divot" in the bolt body.

Caution.........external appearance does NOT mean all is correct.

Post some pictures when you can.
 
Here are some photos. Happy to 20221118_070416_copy_1356x855.jpg 20221118_070356_copy_1506x952.jpg 20221118_070405_copy_1300x938.jpg 20221118_070300_copy_982x1532.jpg 20221117_175310_copy_1612x1061.jpg take more if those don’t show what we are looking for.

Indeed, the bolt has 2 guide rod collars. I am not sure how to identify the anti rotation divots.

As for the smith, he closed down shop years ago, and nobody took over I regret.

My AV is a 9.3x62 by the way, with a 20 barrel.
 
Great pictures!

If the repair was done correctly, you should be able to see the edge of the retainer clip through the small access hole in the side of the guide rod.
If the retainer clip is oriented correctly, its slight curvature should be TOWARDS the bolt body(inwards)......NOT away from the bolt body. This is specific orientation is CRITICAL.....in that the retainer clip is what prevents the guide rod from moving forward under recoil......but ONLY if installed correctly(NOT upside down).

How close of a picture can you get........focusing only on the guide rod access hole?

BTW......this AV bolt appears to predate those with "divots".
 
With bare eyes, it is extremely hard to say. Some photos, as best as I can producd, without and with flash... There is a small someting taht looks like a one or two piece thingy. Hard to say really... Can you identify it? 20221118_145627.jpg 20221118_145636.jpg 20221118_145652 (1).jpg
 

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I am afraid there is actually nothing in this hole. If I turn it around a bit, all I can see is the bolt itself. Puzzling. Sorry for my ignorance...
 
Good pictures.

I think I can "see" the vertical edge of the retainer clip, just rear of the bolt recess for the collar.

The final test, I would try, is to rotate the guide rod from behind the bolt lugs.
Then, with light to moderate pressure, move the rod fore and aft. It should only move about 0.010" to 0.020" total(fore and aft)......with a definite "stop" when attempting to push forward.

The only thing left, is test firing the rifle.....while closely watching the guide rod position.

Note......some double-stick tape, on a clean guide rod, will let you pull the rod rearward.......should the bolt lock up again.

Hope this helps.
 
Excellent Kevin!

I tried moving it fore and aft and it doesn't move more than 0,10" and it is impossible to move it further. The stop feels solid.
I will try and fire it. Last time, when the bolt got locked, I was shooting Remington Core Lokts. I will try and shoot something else, just in case these were part of my problem. I pray it will shoot fine as sourcing old Sakos spare parts looks like a nightmare...

Double-stick tape trick well noted!

Many thanks for your precious advice Kevin, very much appreciated indeed.
 
Good luck in test firing the rifle.

Just to be clear......the guide rod problem has absolutely NOTHING to do with what ammunition you're using. It does have everything to do with how the internal parts of the guide rod are assembled.

As far as ammunition is concerned.....you may want to look into how the boltface got it's black deposits. Maybe a bad case.....underload....overload???

Anyway.....glad to be of help.
 
Well noted Kevin, got it. Many thanks again. I will report back after the field session, which will be in a few months when I am back from travel.
 
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