• Hey All! Lately there has been more and more scammers on the forum board. They register and replies to members requests for guns and/or parts or other things. The reply contains a gmail or hotmail address or similar ”anonymous” email addresses which they want you to reply to. DO NOT ANSWER ANY STRANGE MESSAGES! They often state something like this: ”Hello! Saw your post about purchasing a stock for a Safari. KnuckleheadBob has one. Email him at: [email protected]” If you receive any strange messages: Check the status of whoever message you. If they have no posts and signed up the same day or very recently, stay away. Same goes for other members they might refer to. Check them too and if they are long standing members, PM them and ask if the message is legit. Most likely it’s not. Then use the report function in each message or post so I can kick them out! Beware of anything that might seem fishy! And again, for all of you who registered your personal name as username, please contact me so I can change it to a more anonymous username. You’d be surprised of how much one can find out about a person from just a username on a forum such ad our! All the best! And be safe! Jim

Favorite (and unfavorite) Scopes for your Sako

Sako Collectors Club Discussion Forum

stonecreek

SCC Secretary
SCC Board Member
Taking a cue from Old Hippie, here is a new thread devoted to discussing scopes (otherwise known as "optical gun sights").

Virtually all of my Sakos are mounted with Leupolds. The oldest one I have dates to 1965 (an original Vari-X 3-9 on a four-digit .264 Finnbear). It is still going strong and the Finnbear always puts its first shot dead center and 2" high, exactly where it did the last time it was fired (sometimes as long as five years).

I do have a couple of Sakos wearing original Denver Redfields. And I do like to have my Sakos fitted with scopes as close to contemporaneous with their age as possible. While I've given up and mounted some matte finished scopes on later Sakos, I much prefer the gloss to match the bright bluing of the rifle, especially on Deluxe models.

Although European made scopes have outstanding optics (insofar as clarity and focus), they often exhibit characteristics that I find unhelpful in a hunting scope. First, the eye relief and lateral eye placement tend to be very critical (your eye has to be just the right place to see the sight picture). This makes them slower to use and more difficult to use if your shooting position happens to be unusual as sometimes occurs in the field. Second, they tend to be somewhat heavier and bulkier than the Leupolds, which is hardly an endearing quality in a riflescope. And finally, most exhibit what is called poor "field blending" -- the tendency for the sight picture to be restricted with a large black ring around it and look like you're peering down the center of a cardboard paper towel tube. This is partly due to an optical/mechanical trick to keep the eye relief relatively constant as the power is changed on a variable. Constant, but critical.

I agree with most that there is no place for one of today's cheap Chinese-made scopes on a Sako. However, one of them in fixed power is a pretty good buy for a casual rimfire rifle or a "loaner" deer rifle (of lesser make than a Sako, of course.)

Opinions and experience vary, so feel free to express your own likes, dislikes, and prejudices (which of course none of us harbor, but which our well-studied and fact-based opinions are sometimes mistaken for;)).
 
Taking a cue from Old Hippie, here is a new thread devoted to discussing scopes (otherwise known as "optical gun sights").

Virtually all of my Sakos are mounted with Leupolds. The oldest one I have dates to 1965 (an original Vari-X 3-9 on a four-digit .264 Finnbear). It is still going strong and the Finnbear always puts its first shot dead center and 2" high, exactly where it did the last time it was fired (sometimes as long as five years).

I do have a couple of Sakos wearing original Denver Redfields. And I do like to have my Sakos fitted with scopes as close to contemporaneous with their age as possible. While I've given up and mounted some matte finished scopes on later Sakos, I much prefer the gloss to match the bright bluing of the rifle, especially on Deluxe models.

Although European made scopes have outstanding optics (insofar as clarity and focus), they often exhibit characteristics that I find unhelpful in a hunting scope. First, the eye relief and lateral eye placement tend to be very critical (your eye has to be just the right place to see the sight picture). This
Um..how come we can’t see this on the current activities? Oops there it is!
 
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4BFA9E53-CE39-443A-8FA5-ED8775B15E95.jpeg I like Leupy’s for the most, but I also love the old steel Weaver K’s
They don’t have the retina popping optical advantages of my Leupolds but they are quite clear and functional in most cases.
I used to see many 46’s equipped with these old K 10’s … I think they look awesome
 
I also love the old steel Weaver K’s
The all-steel El Paso Weaver K-series was tough as nails and had excellent and repeatable adjustments. On the downside, optics were a bit on the duller side and they were anything but fog-proof. However, living and hunting in the relatively warm and dry Southwest, their lack of moisture sealing wasn't typically a problem for me. I have a couple of them on older non-Sako rifles.
 
My Sakos and Tikkas wear a variety of scopes. The largest number are Leupold, but Burris, Weaver, Redfield, and several other domestic and imported scopes are represented. This and following posts will discuss some of the period scopes that have turned up on L46 rifles I have bought.

A couple of years ago I bought an early L46 rifle with the wing safety, equipped with a 6x Kollmorgen Bear Cub in a Stith mount. I am convinced it has been on the gun since new. Kollmorgen scopes are not well known, but are very important in the development of the US rifle scope industry. The main business of the Kollmorgen optical company was military optics, especially submarine periscopes. Kollmorgen made most of the periscopes for the US submarine fleet in WWII. After the war, the company started making hunting optics. Their best-known product was the Bear Cub, which had a 26mm tube and was available in 4x and 6x versions. The Bear Cub was a superlative scope for its time. It was distributed by Stith, which made mounts and 26mm vertically split rings for it. Eventually Kollmorgen got out of the sporting optics business to focus on their military contracts. The company is still in business and still makes submarine periscopes for the US Navy.

The sharpness, clarity, and contrast of the Kollmorgen scope are astounding for a 70-year-old optic. In terms of optical quality, it gives away nothing to a newer scope. Coatings and sealing have improved enormously, but for optical quality this old scope can hold its own even today. This one has a straight crosshair reticle; I don't know if others were available.

Here's the Kollmorgen 6x Bear Cub on my L46. Note the distinctive knurled ridges on the eyepiece. Redfield retained this styling feature throughout its life as an independent company. The Stith mount is a straight dovetail like a Tikka or rimfire mounting rail.

1951 L46 Action R 1a.jpg
 
Eleven of 15 wear Leupolds, my son’s M591 wears a meopta 4-12x50. My three nekid Sakos will wear leupolds as soon as I mount them up-My NIB AV .338 will get a 4.5x14 VariX 3, my AII deluxe .308 will get a 2.5x8, my AII .22-250 which used to wear the Meopta will get…something with a golden ring. That one may go away…
 
Stone already knows........

.........that all my L461 pencil barrel rifles have the Leupold 3-9XAO Compact.....gloss, of course.
Here's one.....on a squiggly 2x4....
17-222-Winslow.jpg

As for larger Sakos.....my deluxe 25-06 wears an older Leuy 3.5-10XAO glossy.

Then, for long distance PDs......my L461 single-shot 17-222 has a Leuy 6.5-20XAO Target.......shiny!!!!
Sako-SS17-222.jpg
 
Wow! Thought I'd just get a list when I asked about scopes. So much info I'm going to make notes. Photos really show the aesthetics of well matched rigs. Thanks
 
My Sakos and Tikkas wear a variety of scopes. The largest number are Leupold, but Burris, Weaver, Redfield, and several other domestic and imported scopes are represented. This and following posts will discuss some of the period scopes that have turned up on L46 rifles I have bought.

A couple of years ago I bought an early L46 rifle with the wing safety, equipped with a 6x Kollmorgen Bear Cub in a Stith mount. I am convinced it has been on the gun since new. Kollmorgen scopes are not well known, but are very important in the development of the US rifle scope industry. The main business of the Kollmorgen optical company was military optics, especially submarine periscopes. Kollmorgen made most of the periscopes for the US submarine fleet in WWII. After the war, the company started making hunting optics. Their best-known product was the Bear Cub, which had a 26mm tube and was available in 4x and 6x versions. The Bear Cub was a superlative scope for its time. It was distributed by Stith, which made mounts and 26mm vertically split rings for it. Eventually Kollmorgen got out of the sporting optics business to focus on their military contracts. The company is still in business and still makes submarine periscopes for the US Navy.

The sharpness, clarity, and contrast of the Kollmorgen scope are astounding for a 70-year-old optic. In terms of optical quality, it gives away nothing to a newer scope. Coatings and sealing have improved enormously, but for optical quality this old scope can hold its own even today. This one has a straight crosshair reticle; I don't know if others were available.

Here's the Kollmorgen 6x Bear Cub on my L46. Note the distinctive knurled ridges on the eyepiece. Redfield retained this styling feature throughout its life as an independent company. The Stith mount is a straight dovetail like a Tikka or rimfire mounting rail.

View attachment 29143
I like the way the Stith allows the extension of the front ring. I find the 46’s and 461’s work best with an extended front ring to balance the turret spacing between rings.
Like you mentioned, I’d never heard of Kollmorgan
, they almost look as if Redfield (Denver) and Weaver (El Paso) had children together…:eek:
 
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.........that all my L461 pencil barrel rifles have the Leupold 3-9XAO Compact.....gloss, of course.
Here's one.....on a squiggly 2x4....

Fantastic wood on that rifle. :D

The Leupold 3-9x Compact AO is a great scope, but the prices these days are mind-boggling. I've shopped eBay and GB several times for one to put on a newly acquired rifle, but couldn't see paying the price of a Zeiss Diatal-C to get one. Always wound up buying something else. Those who bought theirs when prices were reasonable are fortunate.
 
The Leupold 3-9x Compact AO is a great scope, but the prices these days are mind-boggling.
Agreed..I found a gem of that model a while back on eBay. Actually got it for a good price. It arrived at my PO , shown by USPS tracking, and then passed my PO Box within 2 feet, twice! They then sent it to another address similar to mine, a rural route delivery. I never saw the scope ever. The person they sent it to of course had severe amnesia.
Fought for a month and was finally refunded by EBay.
 
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Here's another vintage combination from the 1950's. Last year I saw a nice-looking L46 at a local show. It was fairly priced and had nice wood, and came equipped with a 2.5x Lyman Alaskan with a 3/4" tube in those old wrap-around Sako rings that you had to take the scope apart to put it in the rings. Instant eye-roll - what am I going to do with a low-power 3/4" scope? I couldn't pass up the wood so I bought it anyway, figuring I could get maybe 50-100 bucks for the scope and rings. To my utter astonishment, the 65-year-old Lyman was bright, clear, and sharp. And since it was almost certainly original to the gun, I decided to leave it where it was. Other Forum members informed me that the scope was actually collectible and worth a respectable amount of money. The gun was giving me sub-MOA groups with the low-power scope. Reticle is post and crosshair.

Lyman had a good reputation for making quality scopes. Their 1" line was called the All American. These originally had old-fashioned non-centered reticles, but at some point they acquired a "Perma-Center" reticle and were so marked. Does anybody know when Lyman switched to the Parma-Center reticle or when the industry in general did so? I've seen very few US-made scopes with non-centered reticles. I have a non-Perma-Center 4x All American and I'm curious as to how old it might be. I got it on a custom rifle built in the 1970's but I think it's older than that.

Leupold also made a scope called the Alaskan. Anybody know if they got the tooling from Lyman, or just used the same name for something of their own design?

Here's the L46 with the 2.5x Alaskan and original see-through scope caps.
Lyman Alaskan.JPG L46 Sporter II - 1.JPG L46 Sporter II - 3.JPG
 
One of my favorite scopes are German B. Nickel Marburg/L (also known Nickel Supra)
These are excellent scopes and macht about 95% to Swarovski and Zeiss, but you can pick them about third of the price of Swarovski/Zeiss.
This is mine 4x36 on AV 30-06
 

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Very nice! Did you cut the barrel some or does that suppressor go back over the barrel a few inches? I saw one of those scopes at a gun show about two years ago. I tried to buy it but the seller wouldn't remove it from the rifle.
 
One of my favorite scopes are German B. Nickel Marburg/L (also known Nickel Supra)

I also like the B.Nickel-Marburg scopes. They are bright, sharp, and clear, with good eye relief. You can sometimes find them at very favorable prices because they are not well known in the USA. They are 26mm, which can cause problems because 26mm rings can be hard to find. I have two. One, a 2.5-6x variable, is on an FN-Sako High Power in .30-06. The gun is a GI bringback and the scope was mounted in Europe, probably in Germany. The other, a 12x, is on a Finnish m/28-76 target/sniper rifle.

2.5-6x. The rings are unique; I've never seen another pair like them. They are like regular Sako rings except the windage is locked with a set screw rather than a click-stop. They are not marked Sako or Finland. I think they may be German, but that's only a guess. I have posted photos of these a couple of times but nobody has come up with a satisfactory answer.
06 Scope Right.JPG
06 Scope Left.JPG

12x in a Finnish military mount.
BNickel 12x.JPG
 
All of my vintage Sako rifles wear gloss Leupold scopes, either Vari X III or Vari X II. 3,5-10x40, 3-9x40, or 2-7x28 are the majority. The climate here can be foggy, soggy and bitter at times, so I simply don’t want an issue when I’ve packed in. Whenever I find any of the above I buy them provided they are very clean. For $175-$200 you cannot beat the value of a VX II. Also, Leupold is nearby, so keeping it local is a factor. Personally, I’ve been very satisfied with the support and service.

Okay, I’ll admit I bought a VX6. 3-18 for a long range rifle. It’s heavy and bulky to say the least but the clarity is amazing. And, the CDS dial is spot on - but its not on a rifle that gets packed around. It’s on a desert special and stays pretty close to the truck - or it rides on a quad.

I do own a few Swarovski models on later rifles, Z5 and Z3 scopes are very light weight and the glass and my eyes work extremely well together. I also own Swarovski EL binoculars and the quality in those was my reasoning for the rifle scope purchases.

I’ve got a few other options, but mostly on rimfire rifles and AR platforms.

Great topic, thanks.
 

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