Request For Sako Buying Tips: How Can One Maximize Chance of Getting A Genuine Uncorrupted Factory

[sakoseeker]

In a few recent threads, questions have been raised around the authenticity of some rifles offered for sale in online auctions. Besides the forum examples, I have also monitored two auction sellers in particular that seem to have a continuous and long-term supply of mint pre-72 Deluxe rifles. This seems quite unusual.

So this raises a question. What are some methods buyers can use to establish that a particular rifle is an authentic factory Sako specimen? How can one avoid purchasing a refurbished, modified, or pieced together rifle built from spare parts (especially when an inspection period is not granted)? Given Sako's own production inconsistencies, it adds even more ambiguity into the mix. What elements can buyers audit to protect themselves from purchasing a bum rifle?

 

[bloorooster]

Sakoseeker..your question is good one...I had major concerns about this when I became interested in Sako rifles. there are some rifles online that are not what they seem, and to untrained eye, look very much as they should. Seller sometimes know full well that they have a non-factory original rifle, but sometimes they don't know anything more than the fact that the gun has Sako stamped on it somewhere.

Best thing to do (and it's I what I did) is to use this forum and it's volumes of information, study every facet of these fine rifles, learn about all the different changes, different models and various periods of manufacture. The small things, differences in bottom metal design, recoil crossbars, stock designs and checkering patterns, even the type of front site hood design...grip caps or no grip caps...The list continues on and on

With Deluxe rifles...its all about the "finnish"...Deep ,dark and glossy bluing, stock fit and finish should be outstanding...screwheads on the action bolts will have the same quality bluing...even the rings on Deluxes had Deluxe bluing...but even still one has NO Guarantee that its 100% genuine unless its from a seller you completely trust and is knowledgeable about True Blue Sako Rifles

The best thing I can say to everyone is to educate yourselves in all aspects of the rifle you seek and Caveat Emptor!!!~Bloo

 

[misako50]

Bloo speaks the truth. The only thing I would add is to use the PM system to ask someone you think would know and keep information in confidence.-Misako

 

[bloorooster]

Misako...I wasn't gonna tell 'em that part yet!...Yes, a good mentor always helps!.. There are many good, honest people here, all willing to help with questions and troubles~Bloo

 

[stonecreek]

"Put togethers" which make a gun appear to be something more than it actually is are not nearly as common with Sakos as with long-time collector guns like Winchesters and Colts. However, as the "acquirer" interest in Sakos begins to become more and more like that of true collectors, there are those who will prey upon unsuspecting buyers by representing a gun as something it is not.

Sometimes this misrepresentation is out of sheer ignorance: I once had a guy swear to me that his Sako was a pre-Garcia because "it doesn't have 'Garcia' anywhere on it" -- it was stamped 'Stoeger' instead.

Other times shady dealers will try to pass off a Standard grade as a Deluxe simply because they put a Standard barreled action into a Deluxe take-off stock. There are a lot of ill-gotten gains to be attained in such a manner. For instance, I own a 26" .264 Standard on which the metal is pretty good but the stock shows significant use. If I were to slip that barreled action into a nice Deluxe stock and represent it as original, I suspect that it would bring in the three G range on an auction site, maybe more. ("It's one of those rare Deluxes that escaped the factory without floorplate engraving, you know, making it even more desirable.")

Winchester and Colt collectors are all too familiar with the tricks of the "trade" in which common models are slightly altered to mimick the features of rare models, and thus bring big bucks from unwary buyers. Thankfully, there are far fewer Sako models that are subject to such manipulation, but there are already a few hucksters out there who are doing their best.

I've had very good luck with firearms I've bought on the net being represented accurately and their condition described fairly. Because of the nature of gun enthusiasts, I don't think that's going to change. But when I have a question, I always seek a second opinion from a knowledgable friend. Sometimes a second pair of eyes will see something the first pair doesn't. And getting a second opinion on price and value is always helpful, too.

By the way, sometimes buying on the web works in favor of the buyer. I've spotted a few auctions over the years that were underbid simply because the seller had something more than he realized and he did not describe it in a way that buyers recognized.

 

[sakoseeker]

I too found that these rifles have changed hands many times and that the majority of sellers have no idea whether or not their rifle is an unaltered original.

In checklist form, it sounds like the items to scrutinize would look something like this when evaluating a rifle (I added a few as well):

1. Bluing: For Deluxe's, verify the presence of that signature deep, rich, glossy bluing and that it is uniform across all metal parts (including hardware). Point rifle at a bright light and look for 'waves' on the barrel finish that are an indicator of a re-blued gun. An obvious difference exists between the standard and deluxe blue. By comparison a standard looks almost matte compared to the black mirror finish on Deluxe's from any era.
2. Bolt Handle: Verify that the checkering pattern (or lack thereof) on the ball of the bolt handle is correct for vintage. I sampled and the results ranged from from fine (~'74 Garcia L61R Deluxe) to slightly coarse ('84 Stoeger AII standard) to none ('91 Stoeger AV Deluxe). Also confirm serial number suffix on bottom of bolt handle is present and a match to the receiver.
3. Bottom Metal: Verify design is correct for vintage
4. Checkering: Verify proper Sako skip-line pattern for Deluxe vs standard which has pointed checkering. I have seen rifles represented as original Deluxe's that were actually standards placed in upscale aftermarket stocks with pointed checkering.
5. Dovetails: Slide a known good interference fit base like a Redfield on the dovetail to check fit. Dovetails can become undersized in the polishing process before re-blue and if this happened the base will over travel on the dovetail with almost no forward pressure. Then place Redfield mount back in drawer and attach scope using original Sako ringmounts because that's how it's supposed to be!
6. Front Hood: Verify correct for vintage
7. Import Marking (for U.S. Guns): Aside from the earliest Firearms International rifles, importer markings should be present on the underside of the barrel for most rifles not hand carried into the U.S. from abroad. Re-blued rifles will not have this marking present anymore.
8. Manufacture Date: Attempt to establish date using serial number list posted here on the forum. This will determine the correct features that should be present on a legitimate rifle.
9. Recoil Crossbars: Verify correct for vintage (?)
10. Stock Design, Fit, Finish: Inspect butt pad for Sako branding and period correct logo, verify correct profile for vintage, inspect for correct grip caps/spacers, verify precise wood:metal fit. Confirm rosewood fore end cap is not cracked. Confirm no bedding compound is in the channel. Some rifles have a pad between the barrel and stock from the factory.

A few of these I need to study to figure out what is correct/desirable (crossbar, bottom metal, hoods). Please let me know is anything needs correcting/editing. The list should helps folks a) establish the true vintage of the rifle and b) verify whether or not the rifle is a genuine factory article.

Thanks for the assistance and suggestions! Hopefully this will help others out.

 

[topgear]

Sometimes a little knowledge can actually be a problem as well. I remember a guy told me once about a sako L46 he went and had a look at but didn't buy as it was not a 'real' factory sako as far as he could tell (he was reasonably knowledgeable about the L461's, and A series). The give away according to him was the strange 'mauser' type wing safety and the bolt serial number had a 'stamped' not engraved serial number on the bolt handle and a funny dark coloured stock that must have been after market he said. The guy had obversely put in an aftermarket bolt and stock he thought. The stock didn't worry him he said but the bolt was a deal breaker. He said it was a .22 hornet and the seller was asking $250 for it with an old pecar scope! After I nearly choked and spat my tea out and filled him in that it was an early model with left hand safety and birch stock and they all come like that and probaly worth $2500 here in oz we both had quiet a laugh and agreed never to let a lack of knowledge get in the way of a good sako deal!
Anyone else with no knowledge and just after a small cal. sako would have brought the rifle as it was cheap. However for him with some knowledge of what a sako should be like -right side safety, hand engraved bolt serial no. this didn't look right to him so he stayed away from it. I also know of at least one prestine 7x33 that got butchered as the owner didn't know what they had and he could'nt get cheap ammo.

One thing the net definitely makes it easier to find out whats about and what things should be like. I also notice there seems to be more 'mis-representation' at the high end of the market with the deluxes and super deluxes. If you follow the adivce of the posters above you should get something 'honest'.

Cheers John

 

[RC20]

Just to add a twist to this, I came across what would appear to be a Dekuxe action dumbed down to a standard Sako (L61R). Now why anyone might do that is ........

I approached it the same way you would a high value one looking for inconsistency. For me it was a significant purchase in a gun that I think will gain value as time goes by and fun to shoot in the meantime.


Details are its a 1964 vintage 30-06 with no front sight and not signs there ever was one (i.e. not removed or knocked off as finish in the front sight area matches exactly the rest of the barrel finish).

However, the wear on the gun matches up with the condition of the stock. I think you would detail it as a very good overall 85%.

Thanks to the forum, I also discovered that the bolt and the serial number have to match before I bought it which it does and I did not know that feature on Sakos (we did not know that on the family 270 and a check of that was fun as it added a bit to that part of the family knowledge base for our mutual gun collections)

In addition, the swivel are correct and it has the shims for the floor plate. I know no shims would not mean anything, but in the context, floor plate shims would seem to indicate it all was original intact.

While it could be a re-barrel, the barrel has the required marks for the era (Bofer steel) and the condition matches the rest of the gun.

Possibility range that they just put a deluxe action in a standard stock to meet a production need, it was indeed re-barrel early on though it would mean a wrong barrel.

For however it got that way it is genuine (in my opinion) and can be sold that way.

Anyone buying it should question it for those details.


I did recognize right off the bat that the lack of a front sight was different, but the reading on the Sako sight confirmed it was not just different but very unusual with all the responses indicating they had not ever seen that.

Big bucks, no. But a bit different and fun to pick one up like that yes.


And the authentication is as good as I can get and detail for when it does get sold.