Sako M85 338wm accuracy issues

[Funkyrider63]

Hey all, some help/advice would be appreciated.
M85 grey wolf 338wm. Has only had 60rpunds down the tube.
4-6” groups @100yds with 3 ammo types tried so far with no real pattern, (SST 225, AB 225, ELDX). Groups shot off a lead sled as well.
I’ve tried 2 scopes, different rings, (on optilocks bases).
Action bolts all tight.
Crown looks good, concentric marks in relation to rifling.

There is a rub mark from stock on bottom of barrel just by chamber, with a scorch mark in wood just ahead of it. Would that cause this much POI variance?

 

[bloorooster]

Is that some type of bedding block in pic #4?
With Phillips screws?
I’m not familiar with the M85’s

 

[Funkyrider63]

Is that some type of bedding block in pic #4?
With Phillips screws?
I’m not familiar with the M85’s

That’s the recoil lug. Fits into the bottom of the action. Pic here shows How it fits, then the bottom plate of action bolts through it.

 

[bloorooster]

Does it fit solid ?
That could be a weak link , but like I said, I’m completely unfamiliar with these guns.
A bedding block / recoil lug held in place with wood screws worries me.
The stock also has 2 recoil cross bolts , fore and aft? Right?

 

[Funkyrider63]

Yes. The recoil lug is just held by the 2 screws as well as the tab that is recessed into the stock.

 

[P04R]

I believe the only function for the phillips (pozidrive to be exact) screws is to stop the recoil block from falling out when the stock is off. Possibly they help keep the block in the hole under recoil, but I doubt their holding power is much at all compared to the front action screw. Fit of the recoil block in the stock is quite sloppy on most 85's, and bedding might be beneficial. But with that kind of spread... I don't think it's just bedding issue.

 

[kevinlg]

What is your cleaning regime? How often? Barrel borescoped?
Just some thoughts.

 

[Spaher]

I am suspicious of the marring or multiple barrel marks in photo 5 that is likely from contact with the stock. Inspect the stock at the point where the markings show contact to see if any indications of a spot that needs be addressed.
I have never seen a group like this from a Sako, once scope mounting and action snug tightening assured. Most random groups are from poor scope mounting. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Funkyrider63]

What is your cleaning regime? How often? Barrel borescoped?
Just some thoughts.

Not borescoped as don’t have access to one. It’s been deep cleaned after every 30 shots so far. Boresnake every 6-9 at range

 

[Funkyrider63]

I am suspicious of the marring or multiple barrel marks in photo 5 that is likely from contact with the stock. Inspect the stock at the point where the markings show contact to see if any indications of a spot that needs be addressed.
I have never seen a group like this from a Sako, once scope mounting and action snug tightening assured. Most random groups are from poor scope mounting. Just my 2 cents.

Yes there is definite some contact there at the front of the chamber.(just behind the slight burn/scorch mark). Dollar bill test gets very snug there also. Would a person just sand some of the material out until it’s clear again?

 

[bloorooster]

I see a lot of wiggle room resulting with the extra layer of bedding block steel between the action and the wood. Judging by the marring at that contact point , some wiggling has been going on.
Like Spaher says , typical sporadic grouping is usually a scope or scope mount problem. Pie sized groups from a Sako rifle of any vintage is not a common occurrence.

 

[Spaher]

If it were mine I would remove the contact point on the stock by gentle sanding. If no change then consider a replacement stock or replace the rifle depending on the cost.
I’ve had a few non-Sako’s (Rem, Wthby & Win.) years back that would not group and I promptly traded them off as confidence level, time & cost to remedy made it easy. If I recall correctly they were more pencil barrels. I don’t want poor shooting rifles.
Good luck.

 

[bloorooster]

If it were mine I would remove the contact point on the stock by gentle sanding. If no change then consider a replacement stock or replace the rifle depending on the cost.
I’ve had a few non-Sako’s (Rem, Wthby & Win.) years back that would not group and I promptly traded them off as confidence level, time & cost to remedy made it easy. If I recall correctly they were more pencil barrels. I don’t want poor shooting rifles.
Good luck.

Additionally…black soot the entire bottom surface of the action and barrel shank, making sure to cover the suspect area of contact. Put it carefully back together, as tight as it should be. Take it to the range and run a few shots through it. Disassemble and inspect…

 

[bloorooster]

After going back and re-reading, I noticed you said “Led Sled” … how much lead?
A chambering such as .338 mag is heavy recoiling , especially with the heavy pills. Shooting from a vise that has little or no give can produce ill effects. Same as placing your rifle butt against a tree and pulling the trigger. Rifle stocks are designed to have human flesh and bone as a “shock absorber” so to speak…
The lead sled will make things worse in this situation, I suggest to leave it out.

 

[Funkyrider63]

After going back and re-reading, I noticed you said “Led Sled” … how much lead?
A chambering such as .338 mag is heavy recoiling , especially with the heavy pills. Shooting from a vise that has little or no give can produce ill effects. Same as placing your rifle butt against a tree and pulling the trigger. Rifle stocks are designed to have human flesh and bone as a “shock absorber” so to speak…
The lead sled will make things worse in this situation, I suggest to leave it out.

I use no weight in the sled actually… mostly just as a rest. I do not strap it in either. I have shot my 375 h&h from it for years with excellent results using it as a rest only

 

[Bucktote]

Welcome Funkyrider63,
I too use a lead sled, but have modified it to allow movement after the shot.
I like you i use it as a rest that easily gets you back on target securely. Sako rifles
that I have, have 2 pressure lobes about 2" from the end of the stock and provide
an upward pressure at that point. I have no history about your model 85 but have floated the heavy barrels on my 30/06 & 25/06 with good results. I am not a fan of heavy recoil rifles & shoot mild loadings in all my rifles. The recoil lug you show looks drastically different from the ones in my rifles? I mean no disrespect,
but have heard some bad reports about model 85 rifles. The advice given by our members about scope mounting etc. is sound & you may consider getting rid of your rifle if it doesn't improve soon. Sorry you are having trouble. good luck,
B/T
P.S. best times, hunting with your children!

 

[Funkyrider63]

Welcome Funkyrider63,
I too use a lead sled, but have modified it to allow movement after the shot.
I like you i use it as a rest that easily gets you back on target securely. Sako rifles
that I have, have 2 pressure lobes about 2" from the end of the stock and provide
an upward pressure at that point. I have no history about your model 85 but have floated the heavy barrels on my 30/06 & 25/06 with good results. I am not a fan of heavy recoil rifles & shoot mild loadings in all my rifles. The recoil lug you show looks drastically different from the ones in my rifles? I mean no disrespect,
but have heard some bad reports about model 85 rifles. The advice given by our members about scope mounting etc. is sound & you may consider getting rid of your rifle if it doesn't improve soon. Sorry you are having trouble. good luck,
B/T
P.S. best times, hunting with your children!

Definitely no disrespect taken by your comment . Yes from my understanding m85 recoil lug is a complete different design from earlier models and does not seem to be overly well liked. Having had 2 different scopes on and the bases removed and redone inbetween I’m fairly sure they are good. Rings were replaced as well. After years of wanting one this is my first Sako and it’s quite disheartening. Definitely not what I expected after having absolute tack drivers in my tikkas and brownings.

 

[Bucktote]

Definitely no disrespect taken by your comment . Yes from my understanding m85 recoil lug is a complete different design from earlier models and does not seem to be overly well liked. Having had 2 different scopes on and the bases removed and redone inbetween I’m fairly sure they are good. Rings were replaced as well. After years of wanting one this is my first Sako and it’s quite disheartening. Definitely not what I expected after having absolute tack drivers in my tikkas and brownings.

Funkyrider 63,
There are several Sako .338 rifles seen on Guns International. One looks good on page two, but there are others. I don't know how you feel about newer rifles, but I like the L61R, AV and older models better, as I think the quality of
materials & craftmanship are evident in their performance. Many buyers unwittingly buy heavier cal. rifles than they need & quickly rid themselves of such. The game you hunt can use such cal. & you may find one in your price range & style. Detroit has been known to turn out a Friday or a Monday car that is not up to par. but older, lighty used, Sako rifles are out there for the savvy buyer. Best wishes, B/T

 

[Spaher]

& new discounted significantly as below @ EuroOptic $600. Off although different caliber but out there on new or lightly used.

 

[Funkyrider63]

Yea don’t know if I’ll bother buying a Sako ever again. Least not new ones. Probably hunt for something older like an AV for L61 Finnbear