L61R 375

[icebear]

Lacquer, as used here in the US, is predominantly for cabinets & fine furniture and has very poor wear resistance properties. If used on a gunstock it would wear through very quickly & give very poor weather protection to the stock. My opinion of the word "Lakka", although it translates to "lacquer", is that it is used by Sako to denote the gloss or shiny finish, while "Oljy" is used to describe the satin finish that looks like oil, but is actually a sprayed on faux oil finish. Sako was using the same type of "poly" finishes as Browning & other gun makers of that time. If you have ever stripped the finish on a gloss finished Sako you will know with certainty it is NOT lacquer, but rather a tough synthetic product of some kind. If it was lacquer you could peel it off with your fingernail! My late 80's AI has the "Oljy" finish, but it is NOT an oil finish by any stretch of the imagination, but some type of spray on product that gives the "look" of an oil finish. Just my personal observations from refinishing a few Sako stocks.

That is consistent with my experience with Sako stocks. and that's why I stuck in the qualification that I couldn't be sure what the stuff actually was.. I have quite a bit of experience working with automotive lacquers and the Sako "lakka" finish doesn't feel like the acrylic lacquers I used to spray onto motorcycles. And, most of the lacquers I've ever worked with are quite easily stripped. Current automotive clear coats are much harder, but those use technology that didn't exist when Sako was building the L61R. However, lacquer is what Sako calls it, so I thought it was a useful contribution to the discussion. As for the oil finish, I suspect it's something like Birchwood Casey's Tru-Oil, a blend of natural and synthetic ingredients. I finished a couple of stocks in Tru- Oil before I learned to work with linseed and tung oil, but I don't use it any more except for repairs on guns that are finished with that type of product.

 

[paulsonconstruction]

That is consistent with my experience with Sako stocks. and that's why I stuck in the qualification that I couldn't be sure what the stuff actually was.. I have quite a bit of experience working with automotive lacquers and the Sako "lakka" finish doesn't feel like the acrylic lacquers I used to spray onto motorcycles. And, most of the lacquers I've ever worked with are quite easily stripped. Current automotive clear coats are much harder, but those use technology that didn't exist when Sako was building the L61R. However, lacquer is what Sako calls it, so I thought it was a useful contribution to the discussion. As for the oil finish, I suspect it's something like Birchwood Casey's Tru-Oil, a blend of natural and synthetic ingredients. I finished a couple of stocks in Tru- Oil before I learned to work with linseed and tung oil, but I don't use it any more except for repairs on guns that are finished with that type of product.

My feeling on the "oil" finish is that it isn't an oil at all, but rather a product that gives the "appearance", and a poor one, of a satin oil finish that can be sprayed on in a production line process. No production line rifle can be "oil" finished because, as you know from experience, it is a labor intensive & time consuming process. With all the synthetic stocks & faux finishes on rifles today, I think there are very few people that could actually recognize a true hand rubbed oil finish these days. An true oil finish is "in" the wood, not "on" it. Most gun makers use terms to describe their products that aren't necessarily accurate, but convey to the buyer a recognizable feature or attribute, like Sako with their use of "Lakka" & "Oljy".

 

[bigcountry4me]

My feeling on the "oil" finish is that it isn't an oil at all, but rather a product that gives the "appearance", and a poor one, of a satin oil finish that can be sprayed on in a production line process. No production line rifle can be "oil" finished because, as you know from experience, it is a labor intensive & time consuming process. With all the synthetic stocks & faux finishes on rifles today, I think there are very few people that could actually recognize a true hand rubbed oil finish these days. An true oil finish is "in" the wood, not "on" it. Most gun makers use terms to describe their products that aren't necessarily accurate, but convey to the buyer a recognizable feature or attribute, like Sako with their use of "Lakka" & "Oljy".

Most faux “oil” finished stocks can be completely stripped in about an hour or less with 120 grit paper. Most often the grain is left porous and can easily be identified just looking closely. As Paulson points out, a true hand rubbed oil finish starts by building coats which completely seals the grain tight. Then once that’s achieved top coats are typically applied to add depth. High sheen or matte finish is typically done depending on taste, or for keeping close to originality.

Some of the older urethane finishes are also pretty easy to strip but it certainly takes more effort, while some of the modern urethane finishes are really tough to completely remove. Labor intensive. I typically charge more labor for modern finishes like Browning, Weatherby etc.

 

[stonecreek]

I think that paulson is generally correct about the nature of both the gloss and the matte finishes on Sakos. However, I wonder about the L46's from the early 1950's. I have a couple of them (1951 with LH wing safety and 1952 with RH block safety) with checkered walnut stocks. The finish is original on them and still looks great, with none of the crazing that you often see on later Sakos with the Browning-type polyurethane gloss finish. Any idea what they used for those early L46's?

 

[icebear]

Any idea what they used for those early L46's?

Probably good old linseed oil. That's what Sako would have been most familiar with, as Finnish military stocks were dipped in linseed and it was standard for good-quality sporting arms at the time. I prefer tung oil for finishing a new stock, but I still use linseed quite a bit for restoring old military rifles.

 

[bigcountry4me]

I think that paulson is generally correct about the nature of both the gloss and the matte finishes on Sakos. However, I wonder about the L46's from the early 1950's. I have a couple of them (1951 with LH wing safety and 1952 with RH block safety) with checkered walnut stocks. The finish is original on them and still looks great, with none of the crazing that you often see on later Sakos with the Browning-type polyurethane gloss finish. Any idea what they used for those early L46's?

Not sure about actual products but my opinion is - Sako L46 and 57’s etc. we’re not built in the typical production fashion of the later rifles.

I think the early L and A series rifles are very good but more were produced, so therefore, more of a production mindset. Some of the later products like the AV really started to show the shortcomings I think Paulson is eluding to.

In other words, more individual hand work went into the 46’s etc. even though there’s minor quality imperfections seen sometimes like in the checkering or blemishes here and there. The older stocks were probably prepared better, then finished in a more thorough fashion which in turn has stood the test of time.

 

[paulsonconstruction]

I've seen birch stocks from the 40's that had brushmarks in what appears to be common shellac & factory original. The L46's from most the 50's appears to be an oil (possibly boiled linseed or tung oil) with additives. Back then BLO was mixed with Venice turpentine, wax (Carnauba or Bees), or possibly other hardeners & driers to make a more "on the surface" & weatherproof finish that I believe was sprayed on. This is just a guess on my part as like everything Sako "the truth is difficult to obtain". BLO, by itself, makes a poor gunstock finish, as it isn't very water resistant, darkens with age, & is never seems to dry completely. I use my own recipe of "slacom" oil when a true oil finish is requested that is BLO based, but I can't divulge the recipe. I make it on the kitchen stove when the wife isn't around. It's similar to the old oil used by Purdy and Holland & Holland. Most people want the shinier poly-oil mix popular these days, but nothing but my homemade "slacom" goes on my personal gunstocks.

 

[stonecreek]

I've seen birch stocks from the 40's that had brushmarks in what appears to be common shellac & factory original.

Yes, I've seen that also. And some of those "flame stained" birch stocks can be surprisingly attractive.

 

[icebear]

Yes, I've seen that also. And some of those "flame stained" birch stocks can be surprisingly attractive.

You mean like this one?

 

[deersako]

You mean like this one?

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Those Sako Mosin sporters are so cool.

 

[stonecreek]

You mean like this one?

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Yep, just like that one.

 

[koeni]

I live in Georgia, USA and have a Concealed Carry - for me it's 4-6 MINUTES to fill out the form and pay!

Wow. That would be amazing. This was my 11th gun, but every gun is the same. New fingers prints, heaps of supporting documents and a few months waiting for approval.

 

[koeni]

Sako refers to its glossy finish as "Lakka" (lacquer). Whether that is a traditional product or some kind of synthetic resin like polyurethane, I do not know, but "Lakka" is the word you see on Sako boxes. The alternative is "Öljy" (oil).

Thanks

 

[koeni]

Koeni,
Great Rifle in great calibre for where you are?
Maybe I’m seeing things??? I hope you are not using a multi piece cleaning rod?
A rifle of that quality or any Sako for that matter deserves a one piece rod....
Keep us posted with any hunting experiences in the future, enjoy.
Jay

Hi Jay. I'm from South Africa. No I only use 1 piece rods for all my rilfes. The thick multi is for my shotgun and I use the handle piece of the other multi for handguns and cleaning the chambers of my rifles. I will post some picks as soon as I can get it out in the veld. Hopefully soon! Our season only opens again in May, but there are some farms with exemption where you can hunt males throughout the year.

 

[koeni]

You mean like this one?

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Does it look like that pury because of the wood or do they manipulate the wood to get that flame look?

 

[paulsonconstruction]

Does it look like that pury because of the wood or do they manipulate the wood to get that flame look?

Birch tends to take petroleum based stains very unevenly & the "look" is predetermined by the wood structure. Icebear's stock has been stained & gives off a beautiful flame look. A "flamed" birch stock is created by running a propane torch or other flame source over the wood. The wood with more oils or "sap" will blacken while the denser (lighter) portions will stay white. Look up my post ,"Why I hate synthetic stocks", to see what a "flamed" birch stock looks like. Usually, after a stock is "flamed" the lighter wood in between the blackened sections is colored with an alcohol based stain or leather dye to achieve a desired shade of contrast.

 

[icebear]

Flamed birch was quite popular with high-end rifle builders back in the day of muzzle-loaders. The technique is still used by modern builders who make muzzle-loaders the old-fashioned way.

Many Finnish m/39 military rifles show exotic patterns from the uneven uptake of stain, as described by Paulson. I have several such rifles; I'll photograph a couple of them and post later.

 

[koeni]

Birch tends to take petroleum based stains very unevenly & the "look" is predetermined by the wood structure. Icebear's stock has been stained & gives off a beautiful flame look. A "flamed" birch stock is created by running a propane torch or other flame source over the wood. The wood with more oils or "sap" will blacken while the denser (lighter) portions will stay white. Look up my post ,"Why I hate synthetic stocks", to see what a "flamed" birch stock looks like. Usually, after a stock is "flamed" the lighter wood in between the blackened sections is colored with an alcohol based stain or leather dye to achieve a desired shade of contrast.

Will have a look thanks

 

[koeni]

Flamed birch was quite popular with high-end rifle builders back in the day of muzzle-loaders. The technique is still used by modern builders who make muzzle-loaders the old-fashioned way.

Many Finnish m/39 military rifles show exotic patterns from the uneven uptake of stain, as described by Paulson. I have several such rifles; I'll photograph a couple of them and post later.

Would be nice to see thanks. I am thinking about staining this one (or rather have someone do it) to a darker colour. Wood looks nice on this one but just a tad too light for me.

 

[stonecreek]

Flamed birch was quite popular with high-end rifle builders back in the day of muzzle-loaders.

I had never heard that. I assumed that most 18th and 19th Century muzzleloader stocks exhibiting the alternating dark/light pattern were quilted maple. Walnut didn't seem to become a popular stock wood until the latter half of the 19th Century.